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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:59 PM
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Britkit Build Off April 2012 - Veron Deacon

I've finally made a start on the Deacon. It always amazes me how much time you can spend looking plans over, figuring out conversion problems and just making sure they're thoroughly understood. Yeah, right! I always considered myself to be fairly meticulous, but am now convinced otherwise.

Nevertheless, the unforeseen has been dealt with - at least on the tailplanes. Other challenges lay ahead, I'm sure, but there's a solution for every problem. If I can't figure it out, someone here will have an idea.

At this point I'm all out of 3/16" balsa (how on earth did that happen), but the next stash of wood is scheduled in on Monday and work will continue then. There is a LOT of 3/16" stock used in this one.

The entire tailplane as built (uncovered) weighs 2.1 oz. I don't know how good or bad that is, but it sure feels heavy. Maybe some lightening holes for the elevators are in order. Solid wood there just "feels" wrong for an electric.
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 12:45 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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Glad to see the Deacon underway cd. I've added a link to this thread to the build off thread and will be watching progress with interest.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Hello, my name is David, and I'm an addict...

I didn't go fly today even though it turned out to be a pretty nice day for it. The temperature hit 98 degrees today, but that's not the reason I didn't go. I just really love to build! I may not be as fast or as good at it as some of you are, but I sure love it as well as anyone here.

Part of the reason I couldn't tear myself away is the servo placement in the pics below. I have been back and forth about where to put them for days. I finally bit the bullet and just went for it. I installed 2 HS-55's in the horizontal stab. I'm still a little bit concerned that I may have put too much weight at the rear of the plane, I guess time will tell.

Again, I've built the second side of the fuse over the first, and again I've wound up with a fuse that is ... well, straight! That's another trick learned here on RCG from some of the more experienced builders. Maybe to some it's an obvious building method, it wasn't so obvious to me. My thanks to those here who share their tips. You help more folks than you know.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 01:58 AM
So I'M meant to be in control?
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David - will be following this with much interest - have been toying with the idea of an electric Deacon myself!

Very neat design work on the servos - presumably they are 'buried' in the tailplane??
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:37 AM
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Good morning Colonel! Yes, the 55's fit inside the airfoil shaped stab with 2 or 3 mm play either side. I know I'll benefit from the shorter control rods, but I sure hope I can balance things out with necessary on-board items and not have to resort to lead in the nose. The only really convenient place to locate the 2200mah lipo is directly under the CG, that means the motor, receiver, and esc is what I have to balance with.

I think a 480 will fly it, but I'm building around a .10 hoping that I can avoid the dreaded nose weight and also have power for anything unforeseen. Most folks could probably build this one at about 2.5 lbs, and that's my target weight. But if anyone can build a heavy airplane, I can - and usually do.

David
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 10:04 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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Hi David

That's a nice looking structure you are creating there. Re the possible CG problem. Due to the quite large lifting section tailplane I am sure the Deacon will fly well with the CG rather further back than we might be used to on a more normal R/C model, probably around the F/F position. However, I do think that if you locate the lipo under the CG you will end up needing some dreaded lead up front. I managed to avoid this with my Spartan by mounting the lipo (a 2200-3S) vertically behind the firewall (see below), taking advantage of the deep nose on this model. This did mean making the battery/ESC connections external, but that was a price worth paying and in any case made for convenience on the field. My servos are in the cabin rather than the tail and the CG came out just right with this layout. I know the Deacon nose is not as deep, but maybe you could mount the lipo vertically behind the wing leading edge former? Using a bottom hatch with a ply box into which the battery would sit; I've used this system on several models, the one in the photo is my Frog Zephyr, much smaller but the same principle would work on the Deacon (having to take the wing off to get to the battery is a no-no for me).

Hopefully, if you can avoid having to add nose ballast, your 2.5 pounds might be a bit pessimistic, the Spartan is about 10% bigger all round than the Deacon, and quite solidly built, and mine only weighs just 40 ounces with a 3S pack, standard size servos and quite a large receiver - and a much bigger than necessary motor (300 watt Turnigy). No problem though, I'm sure it will fly fine at 40 ounces or even more.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 02:25 PM
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Hi David, You might be interested in this thread about my Deacon build & first flights 3 years ago.
The servos are buried in the tailplane same as yours. I found it unpleasant to fly with the FF cg so added some nose weight hidden within an old Frog diesel cylinder head. (Fooled some clubmates into thinking it was a very quiet engine until I demonstrated the lack of compression )
Since the original thread I've changed the motor to a cheaper one, changed the Rx to an FrSky V8R4 micro (parkflyer type) & upgraded to 3s 1300mAH lipos. The model is covered with Solartex & now weighs 27 oz RTF.

PS the battery is positioned as far forward as possible just behind the motor. Access is via a hatch just in front of the undercarriage held in place with a tongue & magnets
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 03:38 PM
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Thanks for the info guys. It appears that I might just as well prepare for a nose mounted battery. That's a pretty neat trick with the diesel head, I may have to borrow that idea!

Pat, at first glance at your model I notice that you have about half of the elevator surface that I do. How sensitive is the elevator control on yours? Even as I looked at my newly finished stab (and especially the elevator), the first thing I wondered was " what was I thinking when I made that thing so big?!"

Beautiful little plane, and I appreciate you making your build thread known. I'll settle in and have a look at it tonight.

Thanks again, guys!
David
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 03:53 PM
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David, the elevator control is more than adequate. I use 50% rates on both control surfaces as I didn't want to make the horns longer & it would be difficult to get access to the inner holes of the servo arms. As it is I've looped & rolled the model & can hold inverted at full power though it looks a bit odd with all the dihedral.
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 02:35 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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It is quite surprising at first how small control surfaces can be on most vintage models and yet still be perfectly effective even with modest deflections. Especially the elevator. To give you an idea the five shown below all require rating down for normal flying, although the full deflections are useful when you want to do a spin.

No panic though, you will be fine with your elevator, but I would be inclined to set the deflection at around 20 degrees each way full and set your rate to 50% for the first flights.
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 08:27 AM
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HI David
An interesting place to put the servos indeed - very neat and tidy. Have you thought of making up a custom extension with mated '+' and '-' leads, or are you just going to find two suitable extension leads? With all the cable lengths in a light model, I wouldn't use any more cable length than necessary, as it's all weight at the wrong end of the model.

Wish I'd thought of the Deacon - it was another of those I could never afford in the proverbial 'Month of Sundays' back when I was new at the hobby...

D
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 10:23 AM
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Sundancer, LOW rates are probably a really good idea. I'll be the first one to tell you that finesse on the sticks is not my best attribute. (Of course, I'm hard pressed to name any "best attribute".) But what you're saying sounds encouraging.

I've been thinking that even though I'll probably need the extra weight that a 3s would afford, the space requirements for it would force me to still locate it further rearward than it needs to be. So I've been toying with the idea of 2s. As the fuse gets nearer to completion I'll pull out some of the possibilities and experiment.

Dereck, I've never to this point purchased the tools or materials necessary to make my own extensions, but I did come across a deal here on RCG on a fistful of pre-built extensions of varying lengths that I bought. Surely in that pile of leads I can find a couple that will do. If not, this may be my opportunity buy the crimping tool and build my own. I'm always looking for an excuse to pick up another tool - for modeling or otherwise!
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 03:49 PM
So I'M meant to be in control?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
n interesting place to put the servos indeed - very neat and tidy. Have you thought of making up a custom extension with mated '+' and '-' leads....?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cd_webb View Post
Dereck, I've never to this point purchased the tools or materials necessary to make my own extensions.....this may be my opportunity buy the crimping tool and build my own.
I never thought of this... presumably it's just the signal wire that needs to be held completely seperate?? Personally, rather than spend the money on the crimping tool (and my understanding is that they are quite expensive for one which does the servo connector size properly), I would chop up existing extensions and then simply solder appropriate wires together, thereby using 'factory crimped' ends...
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 04:11 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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Originally Posted by Colonel Blink View Post
I never thought of this... presumably it's just the signal wire that needs to be held completely seperate?? Personally, rather than spend the money on the crimping tool (and my understanding is that they are quite expensive for one which does the servo connector size properly), I would chop up existing extensions and then simply solder appropriate wires together, thereby using 'factory crimped' ends...
Yep Colonel, that's exactly what I have done in the past with my "V" tail Simply the Best E400 models which have a servo in each tail half. I simply took an appropriate length of the multi-wire cable you can get from any computer spares shop, stripped off just four wires then cut the connectors off the servos leaving about an inch of wire on the servo and soldered both negatives to the black wire in the cable, both positives to the red and each of the signal wires to the two remaining wires in the cable, which happened to be yellow and orange. I then repeated the process at the receiver end, soldering the connectors removed from the servos and plugged them into the rudder and elevator channels. Of course, that is for ruddervator operation where the rudder and elevator channels are mixed at the transmitter, for the two elevator servos you only need one signal wire with both servo signal wires connected to it at the back and the three wires just soldered to the appropriate three wires on the connector cut from one of the servos and this plugged into the elevator channel. The joints in the individual wires are protected by short lengths of heat shrink, and then a larger heat shrink over the whole lot. In the case of the E400 models this saved the weight of about four feet of wire in total.
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 08:41 AM
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Definitely a better bet than buying a costly crimping tool for what could be one or two uses in years. Never thought of the computer store multi-wire though, that's a good one.

No point in piling weight on down the back and then sweating moving stuff forwards to sort the CG.

D
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