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Old Dec 31, 2006, 06:06 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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"Manta"...UFO's Over South Park...

VIKING 60 , Has come Up with a really nice version of the Frost project Y, VTO, or whatever it was really called (only Canadians know fer' sure eh ...)

Flies really well,very stable, simple to build , and does the best high alpha and slow flight, tail biting loops ,rolls like a drill and just looks so Alien Cool .... Our versions fly just as well ... Viking has promised to tell us all about it ...If you like this sorta' thing , you just HAVE to build one or two (one for a pal)... Just too much Fun for such simplicity... all yours Viking !!!!!!!!
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 09:20 AM
RPV builder & operator
Pierre Audette's Avatar
Canada, QC, Gatineau
Joined Jan 2001
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Found these pics from this web site:
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/...o/avrocar.html

It was known as the Avro Ace.
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 09:55 AM
High Altitude Flyer
viking60's Avatar
Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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The MANTA: a

The MANTA is a "stand-off foamie sorta scale" rendition of an actual aircraft designed by John Frost in the early 1950s; I scaled out my flying version from the design drawings included in the U.S. Patent which was finally issued on November, 1962 : #3,063,482. John Frost actually filed this patent application on August 25, 1953... it was not granted (for national security reasons) for over 9 years.

The Manta flies VERY well - *** IF *** you install all of the gear fully forward to get the balance far enough forward!

The Mant's inspiration came out of the USA UFO thread which GPW started. I was taken with the cool looks of the Frost designs, and built the first Manta from there.

There is a web page with all of the Manta info and photos to date:

http://www.stenulson.net/rcflight/manta.htm

My second MANTA is in the works, using the clear vertical stabilizers in the enlarged wing tip stabilizer panels as drawn in the plans; I'll post new photos and details soon.

On this second MANTA, I'll bury all of the electronics gear within the triple thickness foam leading edge area. More soon! It's designed to be a bit simpler to build than the first one , and does not use any spars- just Bluecor FFF and some Scotch "Extreme" cross-filament tape.

[***ADDED NOTE: The version of the plan available on my MANTA web page, linked above, is a higher resolution version of the one available here; evidently RCGroups' upload software automaticly reduces resolution when JPG images exceed a certain size.)

****UPDATE- 4-21-2008 **** - On page 6, posts 85 and 89, you can fing two more Manta Project Variants, the "ACE", and the "ZARK", both inspired by the ship in the photos in post 2 above.

VIKING
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 10:19 AM
High Altitude Flyer
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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Here are two photos of MANTA #2 going together. While the craft flies well without the optional tripled thickness leading edge IF the balance is at the proper point, the building approach lends substantial rigidity to the wing at modest weight, without needing ANY spar materials for structural strength. I thicker leading edge can also offer reduced pitch sensitivity at high airspeeds. And the final advantage of the tripled leading edge is that it gives 3/4" of depth in which to bury ESC, servos, radio receiver, and the flight battery, keeping the airframe very clean.

The wing side plates are not strictly scale, but fit within the visual "foamie stand-off-sorta-scale" impression I wanted to retain from Frost's design, while potentially adding significant rigidity, front to back. GPW and msmith first 'cheated' the wing tip plates entirely in bluecor, producing a very functional version with good flight stability. I opted for implementing the clear vertical stabilizers into the wing tips. There is a weight penalty for doing so, but I was willing to work with it to retain the classic lines of the manta.

While building, recognize that the area where the front ends of the side plates meet the tripled leading edge material is a critical stress area in dealing with less than gentle landings, and strengthen it accordingly; I used extra hot melt glue and "Extreme" nylon filament tape in this area.

How you decide to build YOUR Manta is ultimately your decision- I'm quick & irreverent in creating 'variants' to other's plans, and I expect nothing less from other experienced aircraft designers! Understand, however, that there is one 'sacred' aspect that you might not want to vary- that's the maximum rearward location of the balance point, as shown on the plans! [I've managed to mention that three times in just two posts.... maybe the message will come across!]

VIKING
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 10:55 AM
High Altitude Flyer
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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Pierre,

Thanks for posting the link; The 'pointy-nosed' version shown in the photos seems to have been referred to as either the AVRO "Ace", or possibly the AVRO "Arrow", according to that linked web page; it evidently was 'abandoned' as an early part of A.V. Roe's "Project Y" in about 1954, when they went into development of the AVROCAR hovercraft.

Names have been a bit confusing. I, GPW, and msmith, who are flying these 'MANTAS' have 'claimed the name' for the rounded nosed design from John Frost's patent drawings.

So far no one is flying one of the AVRO Ace / Arrow designs to our knowledge; it would also be another fine subject for a flying member of the Foamie UFO squadron! (Maybe some creative individual can start a thread on that design once they have it flight-proven?)

More photos & setup details on the MANTA soon!

VIKING
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 11:09 AM
Use whatcha got!
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Metairie, LA
Joined Sep 2000
2,982 Posts
The Avro Ace, or project Y as I knew it from a TV special (probably many inaccuracies) was actually the end result that I was after. I liked the lines w/ the pointed nose much better and it was the one that I wanted to build... However, someone posted a 3view for the manta in the UFO thread (don't remember who now... maybe viking?) and that just made it so much easier to deal with (time is short lately... )

We'll definitely have to visit the Avro Ace in the upcoming year...

-mike s.
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 08:28 PM
High Altitude Flyer
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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Mike,

The AVRO Ace does have nice lines; with the longer pointed nose, it will position the motor farther forward, helping balance it. (There's more area forward of the balance point for mounting the battery, too, which is also a plus.)

I've also been busy, & in the middle of other projects (besides that work stuff...) My second MANTA is now painted with the base coats, ready for the installation of flight gear & final trim. I'll do photos of the final setup before long.

VIKING
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Old Jan 01, 2007, 07:09 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Oh well , just another variation that we must try ... For the meantime , these fly very well and are loads of FUN high A's around the field... , hovering too ...
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Old Jan 04, 2007, 07:47 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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More testing has indicated that pitch sensitivity goes away as the proper CG is reached... more power is much more Fun than less power(now running 3s 800's- 1000)...It will stop dead in a breeze with a little throttle control .... FUN plane !!! Weight doesn't seem to affect this plane as much as some others ... ????
V60, on the next one I'm going to use your plans , looks totally Alien !!!
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Old Jan 04, 2007, 09:38 AM
High Altitude Flyer
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Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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GPW,

Yes, the MANTA definitely has an exotic look to it! Frost was an inspired designer- ahead of his time.

My 2nd MANTA is being done up in a full glossy paint job; I'll likely once again use a pair of the 850 mAH 2S packs well forward- (the penalty I pay for using that .030" thick clear plastic for the disappearing vertical stabilizers!)

I'm going to try to have this one flying by Saturday morning, when the "South Park Beagle Squadron" is gathering here for our New Year's get-together.

I'll be burying batteries, servos, receiver, & ESC flush into the triple thickness Bluecor foam up front to keep the drag to a bare minimum. My servos are here now, the motor already wound; it's time to get it finished out!

VIKING
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Old Jan 04, 2007, 10:02 AM
Victoria Super Mortem
UBILDIT's Avatar
BIRMINGHAM ALABAMA
Joined Jan 2006
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Cool..

Viking,
That is too cool looking. Just printed out the plans you drew.. may have to build one and alienize it... my UFO finlly broke for the last time and until I build another, this looks like it will be a whole lot of fun.. and hey.. if GPW likes it... if must be good..not to mention the possible applications as UFO to scare neighborhood kids at night.

Bo
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Old Jan 04, 2007, 11:16 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Just cut the top fins off mine .... more testing...
UB , it's FUN , but keep all your gear well forward , or you'll have to use a heavy motor , like me to balance... Lighter is better!!!!
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Old Jan 05, 2007, 05:52 AM
gpw
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www.mysteriesofcanada.com/ Ontario/AvroCar.htm You guys seen this one????
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Old Jan 05, 2007, 05:56 AM
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Joined Apr 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
www.mysteriesofcanada.com/ Ontario/AvroCar.htm You guys seen this one????
This is the correct link to the page
www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Ontario/AvroCar.htm

just helping.
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Old Jan 05, 2007, 06:14 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Thanks Tony !!!

Wow , another shape to test ???? I'm with MS , I kinda' like the pointy one ... Must build all of them ...Anybody got a pointy one's 3 view, or are we just gonna' have to " wing it" ???....
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