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Old Aug 11, 2010, 10:21 PM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hi Guys,

I updated my curves to be the same as dkfuji's, then remeasured my pitch angles. I can see where the pitch angles with these curves are different, but the endpoints are the same, kinda like I had figured. Instead of 6.5* at mid stick, I now get 5*.

Just to confirm, if I'm not mistaken, I now need to adjust midstick to 0* for all 3 blades by adjusting the linkage lengths, right? Sorry I don't have more confidence in my theory, I just want someone to tell me I'm right before I go mucking with it. Thanks again,

Rafa
R, just leave upper linkages as stock ( from end to end=30mm), Make sure your are at Normal Mode, pitch curve is the default linear, that is a 45 degree straight line, parameters should be 0%, 50%, 100%. When you move throttle stick, you should see the main Blade will become an angle at -9 degree (0% throttle), +2 degree (50% throttle) and +10 degree (100% throttle), adjust lower ball link if needed.
This is as i've done on mine and it works flawlessly, don't know about you.
hope this help
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Old Aug 11, 2010, 10:26 PM
"you'll play to live "
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Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,718 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkfuji View Post
Hey A. Sorry to hear about your little mishap. Personally, I change the maingear out by taking off the 3 links to the swash and tilt the swash to release from the anti-rotation bracket. Then unscrew the maingear bolt and loosen the collar under the main bearings. Then just pull up on the head to clear the gear and slide it out. I just don't like undoing thread locked screws (all of my screws are) risking twisting off the head of the screw and now having to replace any of the metal frames.
Hey DK,
Why don't ya tell me sooner?haha! it's way easier than my method.Anyway, i did replace at same time main gear & belt.
Thanks man,
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Old Aug 11, 2010, 10:38 PM
RC Helis: My Healthy Obsession
The OC, California
Joined Feb 2007
3,159 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hi Guys,

I updated my curves to be the same as dkfuji's, then remeasured my pitch angles. I can see where the pitch angles with these curves are different, but the endpoints are the same, kinda like I had figured. Instead of 6.5* at mid stick, I now get 5*.

Just to confirm, if I'm not mistaken, I now need to adjust midstick to 0* for all 3 blades by adjusting the linkage lengths, right? Sorry I don't have more confidence in my theory, I just want someone to tell me I'm right before I go mucking with it. Thanks again,

Rafa
Okay here is what you should do. Start with everything square 90* which means your servo arms should be as close to 90* as possible at mid-stick. Now look at where your inner swash is to make sure you are in the middle of the travel distance available on your mainshaft without binding at top and bottom pitch. If you run out of travel space with the swash going top to bottom, you will need to adjust the link lengths from servo to swash to accomodate even full travel. Once that is done, look at the pitch of the blades at mid-stick. This is when you adjust the lengths of those links to get 0* pitch at midstick. Once you get all 3 blades correct, you should be able to get +/- 10* with those pitch curves. In order to get a full 12* you will probably need to increase the end points to 80% (L & H) and adjust the 2 other points to make a straight diagonal curve. Remember, my Hold and Nor pitch curves are adjusted to give me 3-5* at the bottom to prevent full negative pitch if I drop the throttle stick while landing and keep the heli from having full negative during spool up. You should do all of the set-up with throttle hold on and adjust the hold value to -15% and make the Hold pitch curve the same as St1 and St2.
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Old Aug 11, 2010, 10:39 PM
RC Helis: My Healthy Obsession
The OC, California
Joined Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Hey DK,
Why don't ya tell me sooner?haha! it's way easier than my method.Anyway, i did replace at same time main gear & belt.
Thanks man,
You're welcome bud.
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 12:10 AM
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USA, IL, Elgin
Joined Jan 2006
666 Posts
All this talk of pitch settings and throttle curves is this custom setup or fixing it to fly decent out of the box? This heli is on my list to purchase but I'm wondering if i'll have to do all this setup work before I fly? I had a Belt 250 before and loved it but I was ahead of myself. Went back to practice more on various sized FP birds and got good with them. Now thinking about thinning out the herd and getting this one. Not ready to do any 3D yet but would like to feel the performance and speed of belt driven CP. I love the torque tube tail setups but it doesn't feel as good as a belt. Also looking at the 2801 tx I'm not just sure I'm ready to have to read through the manual and forums to figure out how to work it and what every setting/button does. Wish this part was more user friendly(this is for you Walkera if you're listening). I'm thinking that's how the Blade SR made it's way into the market with the theme to sellers "Beginner CP and ready to grow when you are" something along those lines. Thoughts? Suggestions? Do I stay here and read this thread everyday until I decide to buy so I know all the in's and out's? I just wanna fly!
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 12:54 AM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Hi stretch1100,

This heli flew fine out of the box, I think. In fact, I was able to fly my first few flights without too much incident (other than my couch hit and learning how a weak battery affect flight), or at least less than some others in this hanger had mentioned with their intros to CP.

I'm just totally new to CP, and had asked dkfuji for advice before I jumped in. He referred me to the Finless Bob vids on helifreak, and I just wanted to apply my newfound knowledge. Really, I wanted to see if I could reproduce the -9 to 9* that he mentioned a while back. I think I might have just discovered a slight adjustment problem with the original setup, that's all.

I don't really even have enough experience to know whether it was flying well or not, and that's why I was trying to check the stock setup. I'm just looking for a baseline to work from.

Jump in, the water's fine.

Rafa


Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch1100 View Post
All this talk of pitch settings and throttle curves is this custom setup or fixing it to fly decent out of the box? This heli is on my list to purchase but I'm wondering if i'll have to do all this setup work before I fly? I had a Belt 250 before and loved it but I was ahead of myself. Went back to practice more on various sized FP birds and got good with them. Now thinking about thinning out the herd and getting this one. Not ready to do any 3D yet but would like to feel the performance and speed of belt driven CP. I love the torque tube tail setups but it doesn't feel as good as a belt. Also looking at the 2801 tx I'm not just sure I'm ready to have to read through the manual and forums to figure out how to work it and what every setting/button does. Wish this part was more user friendly(this is for you Walkera if you're listening). I'm thinking that's how the Blade SR made it's way into the market with the theme to sellers "Beginner CP and ready to grow when you are" something along those lines. Thoughts? Suggestions? Do I stay here and read this thread everyday until I decide to buy so I know all the in's and out's? I just wanna fly!
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 01:06 AM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
R, just leave upper linkages as stock ( from end to end=30mm), Make sure your are at Normal Mode, pitch curve is the default linear, that is a 45 degree straight line, parameters should be 0%, 50%, 100%. When you move throttle stick, you should see the main Blade will become an angle at -9 degree (0% throttle), +2 degree (50% throttle) and +10 degree (100% throttle), adjust lower ball link if needed.
This is as i've done on mine and it works flawlessly, don't know about you.
hope this help
Thanks AC, I just measured my upper links, mine measure ~31.4mm, instead of 30mm. Maybe that's my problem. Shortening the upper links would get my pitch closer to your and dkfuji's. Following all the setup you describe, I get -4 to 12* instead of the -9 to 10* you measured or the -9 to 9* that dk measured. I'll let you know where I get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkfuji View Post
Okay here is what you should do. Start with everything square 90* which means your servo arms should be as close to 90* as possible at mid-stick. Now look at where your inner swash is to make sure you are in the middle of the travel distance available on your mainshaft without binding at top and bottom pitch. If you run out of travel space with the swash going top to bottom, you will need to adjust the link lengths from servo to swash to accomodate even full travel. Once that is done, look at the pitch of the blades at mid-stick. This is when you adjust the lengths of those links to get 0* pitch at midstick. Once you get all 3 blades correct, you should be able to get +/- 10* with those pitch curves. In order to get a full 12* you will probably need to increase the end points to 80% (L & H) and adjust the 2 other points to make a straight diagonal curve. Remember, my Hold and Nor pitch curves are adjusted to give me 3-5* at the bottom to prevent full negative pitch if I drop the throttle stick while landing and keep the heli from having full negative during spool up. You should do all of the set-up with throttle hold on and adjust the hold value to -15% and make the Hold pitch curve the same as St1 and St2.
Thanks dkfuji, this all sounds a lot like what I heard on the Finless Bob videos. I remember Finless Bob saying that an experienced pilot might want -2 or -3* at the bottom on Nor, and that a newbie might want -1*, for softer landings. Do you agree?

I haven't played with the throttle hold yet. I guess that by setting throttle hold to -15%, you don't have to disconnect the motor?

Rafa
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 02:42 AM
RC Helis: My Healthy Obsession
The OC, California
Joined Feb 2007
3,159 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Thanks AC, I just measured my upper links, mine measure ~31.4mm, instead of 30mm. Maybe that's my problem. Shortening the upper links would get my pitch closer to your and dkfuji's. Following all the setup you describe, I get -4 to 12* instead of the -9 to 10* you measured or the -9 to 9* that dk measured. I'll let you know where I get.



Thanks dkfuji, this all sounds a lot like what I heard on the Finless Bob videos. I remember Finless Bob saying that an experienced pilot might want -2 or -3* at the bottom on Nor, and that a newbie might want -1*, for softer landings. Do you agree?

I haven't played with the throttle hold yet. I guess that by setting throttle hold to -15%, you don't have to disconnect the motor?

Rafa
Yes. I would soften up the bottom with -3*. It will just be easier to bring her in and its easier on the heli at spool up.

Yes, yes, yes. Always have throttle hold set-up. It will save you striping your maingear if you hit that before you have a blade strike. It will also save other parts as well. Plus it is a safety feature to always use when you are moving the heli while it is plugged in before and after the flight. You just never know...
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 07:22 PM
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Joined Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkfuji View Post
Hey A. Sorry to hear about your little mishap. Personally, I change the maingear out by taking off the 3 links to the swash and tilt the swash to release from the anti-rotation bracket. Then unscrew the maingear bolt and loosen the collar under the main bearings. Then just pull up on the head to clear the gear and slide it out. I just don't like undoing thread locked screws (all of my screws are) risking twisting off the head of the screw and now having to replace any of the metal frames.
Walkera should have locked-tite the screws on the swashplate, instead they did it else where on the heli which does make it more difficult to service. Now we have to locktite all 6 servo link/balls on the swashplate so they won't come off after shipping, otherwise we are going to get another complaint "You guys didn't test fly my copter as you advertised", LOL. Oh, thanks for your info on the receiver interference problem. Now we are adjusting every antenna out of the box so the heli won't go crazy when the customer gets it, LOL.

Cheers,
Jonathan
WowHobbies.com
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 08:19 PM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Manny told me in one of the other threads that he has a 4F200 already, but that his swash suffered this problem. That's why we haven't seen a Manny video yet. Get him some parts, get him some parts,

Rafa

Quote:
Originally Posted by wowhobbies View Post
Walkera should have locked-tite the screws on the swashplate, instead they did it else where on the heli which does make it more difficult to service. Now we have to locktite all 6 servo link/balls on the swashplate so they won't come off after shipping,

Cheers,
Jonathan
WowHobbies.com
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 10:07 PM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
0* at midstick!!!

Hi Guys,

I'm happy to report that I have adjusted my swash to blade grip linkages to 30.0mm, as AC had noted yesterday (they had been around 31.2mm). The result is that I now have zero degrees pitch at midstick, and -9 to 9* of pitch travel!! Woo hoo. Now if the rest of my parts would just get here, I could try to get back up in the air . . ..

Thanks Guys,

Rafa

ps The other thing I learned is that one full turn on those particular linkages changes it's length 0.25mm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Thanks AC, I just measured my upper links, mine measure ~31.4mm, instead of 30mm. Maybe that's my problem. Shortening the upper links would get my pitch closer to your and dkfuji's. Following all the setup you describe, I get -4 to 12* instead of the -9 to 10* you measured or the -9 to 9* that dk measured. I'll let you know where I get.



Thanks dkfuji, this all sounds a lot like what I heard on the Finless Bob videos. I remember Finless Bob saying that an experienced pilot might want -2 or -3* at the bottom on Nor, and that a newbie might want -1*, for softer landings. Do you agree?

I haven't played with the throttle hold yet. I guess that by setting throttle hold to -15%, you don't have to disconnect the motor?

Rafa
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 11:10 PM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,718 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hi Guys,

I'm happy to report that I have adjusted my swash to blade grip linkages to 30.0mm, as AC had noted yesterday (they had been around 31.2mm). The result is that I now have zero degrees pitch at midstick, and -9 to 9* of pitch travel!! Woo hoo. Now if the rest of my parts would just get here, I could try to get back up in the air . . ..

Thanks Guys,

Rafa

ps The other thing I learned is that one full turn on those particular linkages changes it's length 0.25mm.
Hey R, you get it ! now you have +9-9 on pitch , lower linkage should be 28 ~ 28.5 mm or even 29mm depending on servos horn are all on same level.
Hope you'll get parts soon to get in the air again.
Actually i'm using these settings and heli is flying perfectly, really smooth aggressive flyer , no 3D test , only routine outdoor flight.

Stick Mode: Mode 2
Swash: 1 Servo normal
Reverse: Elev - Revs; Aile - Revs; Thro - Norm; Rudd - Norm; Pit - Norm
Trvadj: All 100% except Rudd 120%
Swaats: none
Gyrhld: Gyrosens -> Auto -> 0: 79%, 1: 79% Hold:0
DR&EXP: Ele, Ail and Rudd D/R 100% ---All Exp +35%
Curves: Thrcurv -> Nor: Linear(0-25-50-75-100) St1: 90% all across; St2: 100% all across
Pitcurv -> Linear in all modes (0-25-50-75-100)

AC
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 12:48 AM
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Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Feb 2010
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Are there any know issues cropping up with this one yet - I might pull the trigger on this one (I love multi-blades).
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 01:18 AM
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USA, IL, Elgin
Joined Jan 2006
666 Posts
Converting the Nitro Walkera #83 to this tri-bladed head and rx system would be sick!
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 05:56 AM
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Australia
Joined Jun 2010
1,611 Posts
After this afternoons flight at the basketball stadium which mostly consisted of hovering about I was a little concerned about the outrunner temperature. I could smell the motor after the flight and it was hot to touch. Battery and ESC were fine and barely warm.

Im running a linier throttle curve, and 40,51,65,74.5,84 pitch curve which outputs -2 to +10 or there abouts. Im guessing blade pitch is exceeding RPM requirments and putting the outrunner under too much load. What would be the best method to reduce motor heat, increase head speed, or reduce reduce pitch to RPM relationship to reduce motor load. Higher head speed with reduced pitch seems to me to be the best path to follow. Does this make sense or am I off track? My other CP heli motors dont run this hot at all.

Mick
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