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Old Jul 08, 2012, 12:40 AM
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United States, CA, San Jose
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Range limit?

So I'm flying my Radian Pro electric glider today, with Dx6i tx and RX3000e rx, and there were many many huge thermals with large flocks of seagulls circling the way to it. Most were fairly far out there. I'm a poor judge of distance but I'd say the 2m plane was about 2/3- 3/4 from being visually, uncomfortably far away, yet being readily recognizable attitude-wise, so I'd guess it was about 600' up and 1000' out?
Anyhoo, I "lost control" quite a few times while I ran to the end of the field to close the gap by 200' or so, and dove it in with 90 flaps to land at my feet. Remembering my brothers advice to range check it, i toggled through the Dx6i menu and found it and quickly figured out trainer switch activated it, and was shocked when surfaces twitched wildly at about 10'!! I rearranged a bunch of servo wires, ran one antenna straight down outside the fuselage and the other straight forward and retest went well over 100' with full control so I quickly velcroed in a fresh battery and relaunched into the next thermal in the exact same spot with the same flock about 8 minutes later.
It was pretty much the exact same distance away when it had the exact same symptoms at the exact same height/distance/position in the sky as far as I could tell, but with a vastly superior receiver and antannae position...so the question is, is there a range limit to 2.4? I spent many a summer vacation specking out sailplanes on FM and am very new to 2.4, and doing some forum searches after today's incident I realize I could have looked at the receiver LED to see if it was red or amber or flashing etc and could have determined what happened if I only knew what to look for, but alas, no.

So is there a physical range limit to this system?
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 03:50 AM
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If that's the CSRC RX3000 you're talking about it claims to be equivalent to the Spektrum AR6100....since the AR6100 is a park flyer Rx (i.e. designed for small models flown close in) I guess yours is too.

So it's not 2.4GHz in general that has limited range it's the Rx you chose to use. A full range receiver would almost certainly do better.

Steve
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 10:16 AM
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Yeah thats for park stuff man.. ? You really need something with sats if you are going to be spec * ing stuff out. I used the AR6200 (Which is now the ar6210) in both EZGP and Cularis that got up pretty high. Look around at spektrums site for a full range rx.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 10:50 AM
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AR600 should also work well. But for sure you need a "full range" receiver for a glider. With proper installation, it should give you range as far as you can see (>1km).
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 11:04 AM
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ahhh, I see. It is the CSRC RX3000e, and I wasn't aware of the limitations. I guess I'll keep these little receivers for my little pocket rockets and freeflight conversions, and put the FM system back into the sailplanes.

Thanks!
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 12:02 PM
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The 600 will work in a Radian as far as you can see - even if you are an eagle -
We have two radians - never a chirp - just go fly - I use 1350 ma 3 cell packs and stock esc setups .
no magin 2.4 just look at what range type you need - buy th correct typerx
Now with the ne w 400 rx - you can't go wrong on price for a full range rx .
These are intended for stuf like the Radian glider- the rx mounts in the belly- one whisker gets taped along the side of the fuselage .
PS for the Radian Pro you need the 600rx
If you are not going to use the flaps on th Radian Pro - use the 4 channel rx and a Y for the ailerons
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 03:11 PM
Aircraftus Fragmentum
United States, IL, Naperville
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Check the 'Power' setting in the DX6i, B-US 247 is available for US use.

See David's reply here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_68...tm.htm#6834364
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 05:34 PM
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It was indeed set to EU not US, thanks!

As to "full-range" receivers, I'll have to look into that, as clearly I'm such a 2.4 newb that I didn't realize there were different types of receivers depending on what one's needs are.
Thanks for the info.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 05:55 PM
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For future reference: The Spektrum range test is a very reliable indicator of basic functioning in the air. At the very least, always test a new setup before flying (even better, before the first flight each session). If you don't get the standard 30 paces (25m), don't fly.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus66 View Post
For future reference: The Spektrum range test is a very reliable indicator of basic functioning in the air. At the very least, always test a new setup before flying (even better, before the first flight each session). If you don't get the standard 30 paces (25m), don't fly.
to expand on that -- also do -if possible - a very slow full rotatation of the model at the range check (turn it in a 360 circle AND roll - all the while doing a deliberate surface movement watching the surface move.
don't block it with your body -
If the control surface stops and jerks - during the roll and turn, try to find that attitude relative to tx and try a slight antenna reorientation to see if that stops the issue This stuf ain't magic - but it does require a bit of thought and practical testing to get the best repeatable performance .
We fly 2 meter electric pattern model at long range -thru all kinds of attitudes at high speeds and the data log shows ZERO problems (fades/holds)
One rx in the top -the other in the belly -( a 8000rx and satellite)
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 11:36 PM
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Funny thing about the range test...the first one was barely 10' or 4 paces before it wigged out, and yet in the air it went the same "full distance" as it did after re-arranging the rx for better range test.
While I'm curious to see if the power setting improves the range, I'm a little gun-shy now! It's a sinking feeling watching a plane go down uncommanded. Especially at the local high school surrounded by suburbia, and yet my mind is so geared towards troubleshooting due to my career as a Ford tech that I can't help but want to figure out exactly what happens with each change I make.

Regardless, it's apparent I need to get at least one new receiver.
Thanks for the input, all.
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Old Jul 09, 2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityevader View Post
Funny thing about the range test...the first one was barely 10' or 4 paces before it wigged out, and yet in the air it went the same "full distance" as it did after re-arranging the rx for better range test.
For the reasons Richard Hanson refers to, you can big variations in range with different orientations of the transmitter and receiver antennas, with blocking of the signal by objects in the model, with different degrees of moisture in the ground, etc. So nothing surprising about your observation.

This is why the "30 paces" test is very conservative and really only an indication that things are working with a good margin of safety. If you get 30 paces, you can be confident you have plenty of range for small and medium size models. For bigger ones, or ones that have potentially signal blocking objects like engines or big batteries, you should do the sort of thing Richard talks about to be sure.

I have never had a range issue while flying with any DSM2 setup that passed the 30 paces test.
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Old Jul 09, 2012, 04:17 PM
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The ground tests described wer the very first tests we did with the first DX6 tx and rx we received years back (preceeding the first DSM2 ,DX7 and 7000rx.)
The test works with any 2.4 setups there are no super duper 2.4 systems which will always work as some apprantly believe. I think anyone who has spent time doing hands on testing will find range is about the same for all of em -at least in the USA
Having a rx setup which "sees" the signal-is another matter altogether-
Installation is very important. If yours won't pass the attitude tests - expect possible signal losses
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