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Old Dec 03, 2012, 08:30 PM
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Norfolk, England
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What makes a micro model?

Okay, not that great a heading, but I couldn't think of anything else.
A few years ago this forum seemed filled with innovative scratch built models. Imagine how disappointing it was to discover most of that gone, only to be replaced with talk of this RTF, or that RTF. I know there are still some scratch builds and innovation to be found, but you have to search them out a lot more than before. Am I the only one who feels that much of the RTF/ARTF discussion would be better on that particular forum?
I know this sort of thing comes up fairly regularly on the scale forum, but there actually is a forum for micro ARTF models. Is it that hardly anyone actually builds their micro models any more? Personally, if I'm looking for info about an ARTF, I'd like it to be where I'd expect to see it - in the ARTF forum. I realise there is a certain amount of cross-over, but it would be awfully nice not to have to wade through pages of buy and fly models to find out what people are building and how they're building it, what equipment they're using and what materials they use to build with.
I'm not stirring anything here, just missing the inspiration I got just a few years ago and curious about what others think. Yes, I do prefer to build rather than buy, but even an old dinosaur like me owns the odd RTF model, so I don't have any axe to grind.

Pete
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 08:42 PM
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Hmm interesting, this remind me that several years ago people use airhog or silverlit guts convert to their own mirco plane and have lot of fun.

Edmond
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 09:02 PM
Arrowhead
Joined Dec 2010
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Maybe the other forum needs a new name, "Micro RTF/ARF"? Currently it's "Micro RTF"... which seems to refer to only micros that come with a transmitter, if you go by how the manufacturers label their products.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 09:54 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
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I prefer to intelligently discuss even RTF models in this forum. Frequent posters here usually have more experience, tend to stay on topic, and have a better mastery of the English language.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wolff View Post
I prefer to intelligently discuss even RTF models in this forum. Frequent posters here usually have more experience, tend to stay on topic, and have a better mastery of the English language.
Not to mention that many can even spell.

A few years ago I got attacked for mentioning something about a Horizon product and I countered that the name of this forum is "Indoor and Micro" and I was discussing an indoor model.

Yes, I like to build, but since I retired I seem to have much less time both for building and keeping a building space un-cluttered. Maybe all the BNF's from Horizon have something to do with the problem.

There's a thread about an Albatross 4 IR model that has stirred the urge to get glue on my fingers since I could probably make something that will fly in this studio apt with the gear in that plane. Unfortunately I have no idea whether the gear is available. It looks like the IR tx may be a kit!

Oh well, I guess I'll order the tiny Vapor and the itty-bitty flybarless Heli for flying at home.

I bought a Makerbot Rep 2, I guess I need a laser cutter also. Then I could do most of the work of building on the computer.

Sent from my iPad as I lie in bed with my Bose headphones on, ready to watch old Jag episodes until I fall asleep.

Next week I've got to get organized.

Pete
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 02:10 AM
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United States, TX, Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PETERRAKE View Post
Okay, not that great a heading, but I couldn't think of anything else.
A few years ago this forum seemed filled with innovative scratch built models. Imagine how disappointing it was to discover most of that gone, only to be replaced with talk of this RTF, or that RTF. I know there are still some scratch builds and innovation to be found, but you have to search them out a lot more than before. Am I the only one who feels that much of the RTF/ARTF discussion would be better on that particular forum?
I know this sort of thing comes up fairly regularly on the scale forum, but there actually is a forum for micro ARTF models. Is it that hardly anyone actually builds their micro models any more? Personally, if I'm looking for info about an ARTF, I'd like it to be where I'd expect to see it - in the ARTF forum. I realise there is a certain amount of cross-over, but it would be awfully nice not to have to wade through pages of buy and fly models to find out what people are building and how they're building it, what equipment they're using and what materials they use to build with.
I'm not stirring anything here, just missing the inspiration I got just a few years ago and curious about what others think. Yes, I do prefer to build rather than buy, but even an old dinosaur like me owns the odd RTF model, so I don't have any axe to grind.

Pete
I don't think we will see the days of innovate bit-car planes again. There is still some really cool stuff around, but it gets buried pretty quick by popularity of this forum.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 04:29 AM
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Tim,
Harsh mate, very harsh - if not without foundation. IIRC, you were exactly the type of modeller/innovator I was thinking of.

Pete,
As I said, there is some cross-over and am not saying that's a bad thing, or that there aren't still some beautiful models to be found on this forum. What I find a problem is searching for info about specific items. If I want to know about an ARF/RTF it would be helpful if I could find it where I'd expect. Similarly, it would be nice to know there was a forum comprised mostly of model builders where inspiration was the prominent feature. Sometimes the 'search forum' function is less than helpful and the more variation of theme there is, the less use it becomes.
Many dozens of helicopters are micro and for indoor use, but is this the forum in which to discuss them. The E-Flite 250 size models CAN be flown indoors, but only if you have a large venue. Micro they are not. Variety can be a good thing, and many RTF models contain extremely usefull equipment (I'm currently working on a couple of projects for the Nano Stik gear) but I just find it frustrating with everything lumped together.

Yes, I do know that the solution is to start my own build threads in the hope it will inspire others.

Pete
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 05:25 AM
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Westbrook Maine
Joined Apr 2003
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What makes a micro model?

I think it's like the difference between art and por*^%aphy; I can't tell you what it is but know it when I see it.

I guess my definition is a model smaller than initially expected. I have a micro saber that has a 24" ws that was built for a 50mm fan. Compared in size to the GP micro saber it's huge, but when I built it it was tiny and is still pretty slow.

I like to build too, but have had a busy couple of years, and haven't finished a project in at least 20 months. There is a 90% compete skeletonized tripe on a desk in my build room that hasn't been touched in a year (I suppose it was an ARF since a friend cut it for me after he saw I cut one by hand). I just picked up a couple rtf's so I would have somthing to fly if I get the chance, and I feel guilty about that.

Fritz
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 10:35 AM
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Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
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There actually has been a lot of innovation lately.

Look at Gene's Video Game Skin tissue covering as an example.

Pete has ton's of innovative ideal built into every build, from scale rotating motors to suspension landing gear.

On the hardware side, the new, programable AS3X boards will allow for unstable indoor planes and I know there are people working on this.

Sean's indoor ducted fan F-35 is another example of where the world has come in the last 5 years.

And Kevon's tiny ducted fans make an indoor 18" ducted fan 747's possible.

There may be less volume, but the quality hasn't really gone down. There may be less balsa builds, because foam construction is faster, more durable and easier to fix for a given weight, but that doesn't seem to reduce the quality of the end result.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 11:16 AM
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Here's the work of one of the most inspiring builders on this forum.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hlight=messeng

I made my own scalable file of this plane to build as a back yard flyer for my flying buddy's back yard. Great place to fly if you like challenges. It's full of obstacles and there's even a tiny pond that has played host to my Li'l' Skeeter on two occasions. One day I'll be lucky enough to get a video of a flight there.

Most of gklein's builds are foam, they are always better than anything you can buy and he always gets them flying.

I've wanted a Sperry Messenger for thirty or forty years but never got around to it. After watching how slowly his flies I made my own drawings and will probably cut one out this winter. I'll go a little bigger than his and I'll stick an AS3X board of some sort in it because it's light and gets you a very solid flying plane.

Between my learning to play an English Concertina (surprisingly difficult) and maintaining my fiddling skills I really do rely on Horizon for most of my aircraft.

Can anyone here tell me they can build a significantly better ducted fan than the MiG? It's right out of my wildest fantasies of flying a jet.

Pete
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 12:36 PM
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There is plently of building and testing on this forum, however the overlap is too much, chit chat is fine but i dont understand why main threads are here, like, for example on the first page you have "Flyzone Albatross," "Parkzone Mini Vapor," "Flyzpne Uberlites review," and "Parkzone Ember mod thread." These are main threads that belong in Micro RTF. But other than that i think the subject matter on this forum is as present as ever.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 02:14 PM
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USA, WA, Bremerton
Joined Mar 2009
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Perhaps we should have a MICRO BUILDERS FORUM!!!

Topics: "Electric Peanuts Builds", Electric Bostonians, Balsa to foam conversions, 1/72, 1/32nd scale models, House of Frog conversions to RC, Etc. etc. I love building but also lack the inspiration. I sometimes go to the free flight forum for inspiration. Remember the old series the 6 Million Dollar Man, "We have the technology we can rebuild him"? Well we have the tech also, we just need the drive and inspiration.
If we had a builders forum only there would be a better chance of getting plans. In the scratch builders forum plans are shared freely. There are very few trying to SELL their models. I don't have an issue with those who devote themselves to making money off this hobby. If they have the gifts and talents they should, more power to them. I'd rather see a modeler recieve something for his hard earned/developed ideas instead of some off shore company ripping his ideas off. That said I would like to see a free exchange of plans, plans, plans. And build, build, build!
Keith
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 03:22 PM
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There are tons of free plans all over the Internet.

Peter Rake is a major source of plans right on this forum. Plans by Earl Stahl and Walt Mooney are free downloads. Here and there you can find planes for which no free plans exist, but that shouldn't stop you since there are also tons of free three views.

I will admit to laziness and procrastination but my excuses do not include lack of plans. If anything, I'm overwhelmed by too much choice.

Pete
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 03:47 PM
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I think all the discussion about rtf models is to gage what could be done with them. Its not all about "what mods i did to this plane" but more about think of what we could do with this planes guts.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 04:01 PM
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United States, AZ, Yuma
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well, the two are so close together its hard to draw a line. i took a airframe, and put in my own guts, but that wont fly in the Micro RTF forum, even if they are stock guts.
i guess its kinda like art and the other naked pictures, you got to go on a case by case.

tho there is a lot less inovation that there used to be, even in the 2 years ive been here.

by the way, Pete, have you ever thought of using a 0.3mm router bit instead of a laser?
i got some from israel, and theyu cut very nice. but my hands too wobbly.
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