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Old Jul 07, 2014, 04:14 PM
LSF V aspirant
tewatson's Avatar
United States, CA, Orange
Joined Oct 2006
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Unmanned aircraft banned in Nat'l Parks

I'm afraid it won't be long before this spreads:

http://news.yahoo.com/drones-banned-...l?.tsrc=attmpt

Note the author uses the term "drone" and "unmanned aircraft" synonymously. The latter term by definition includes all RC models, regardless of type or discipline. The average schmo won't know (and doesn't care about) the difference between a sailplane, a camera-equipped quad, or a real drone. To them, it's all bad and they will want it banned.

Tom
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Old Jul 07, 2014, 05:15 PM
Registered User
United States, VA, Norfolk
Joined Sep 2007
410 Posts
Yeah, I just finished reading an article about this...very disturbing.

Randy
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Old Jul 07, 2014, 05:50 PM
Mark LSF # 3792
United States, TX, Garland
Joined Nov 2008
526 Posts
Tom,

I agree that the average schmo won't know the difference. Myself, if I had a quad/drone I would never attempt to fly it in Yosemite or over a herd of bighorns...but that's just me and I too would be offended if it occurred while I was there.

What concerns me is that we will be impacted by the idiots that are performing these stupid acts, just because they can. These people in my mind are stupid rogues, keep in mind stupid is permanent...ignorance can be fixed.

How do we distance ourselves and the hobby we love from them? Should the AMA be embracing them as they currently are? I'm not so sure.

Mark
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Old Jul 07, 2014, 05:59 PM
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Well, that was kinda my point over in the thread discussing the recent FAA action...defending the FPV stuff because "the law says you can't regulate them" will eventually be the death of all RC as we know it.

Same applies here...we must find a way to separate (and defend) the legitimate hobby from the rogue boobs out there. Going to be tough, because as I said, the public doesn't want to take the time to know and really doesn't care.

Tom
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Old Jul 07, 2014, 06:17 PM
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so. cal.
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Since the AMA has decided to legitimize FPV ( which I think is and was a huge mistake, but the AMA was looking at a massive membership increase, good or bad depending on your view) we are supposed to be all or nothing, I have said it before, if a hard 400 foot limit is instituted, except for DLG all RC soaring will be finished, which means F3B, F3 J, ALES, Scale Aerotow, club competitions, even dynamic soaring will be finished. There will be some smoking deals on beautiful hangar queens. What to do? Looks like we need to support the AMA and the FPV'ers no matter what our personal view is.
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Old Jul 07, 2014, 07:27 PM
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Dennis,
This has little to do with the AMA.. It is a further example of a run away government agency, taking control of something they don't have legitimate reasons to regulate..LJ
PS I am in Istanbul tonight where there is no You tube for security reasons..
Welcome to our Orwellian Planet
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Old Jul 07, 2014, 08:56 PM
Dean
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USA, CO, Littleton
Joined Apr 2005
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I don't do FPV but it seems to me that the AMA members are the only people to do FPV the *right* way. The renegades do it their way no matter what rules are in place. The only good thing is they are stupid enough to post it on you tube or vimeo etc. making it easy for the feds to track them down!
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Old Jul 07, 2014, 10:02 PM
Jim C Patrick
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Shenandoah County
Joined Jan 2008
792 Posts
Larry is right, it isn't FPV; it is the FAA fighting against the future. The AMA has made the right moves.

Ten years ago all RC radios were 72 MHz (or lower) in frequency, today they are 2.4 GHz. That's over 30 times the information capacity as before, they have radio & model binding, more channels, less interference, etc. It's called progress.

Two years ago RC radios consisted of a transmitter and a receiver. If you wanted altitude info you had to place a separate transmitter (on a different frequency) on board the plane with a separate receiver on the ground. Same with video. Today a slew of new radio manufacturers have entered the scene, and they, along with every other manufacturer offers a two-way link —telemetry— in their radios. It's called progress.

Once you have data downlinks, makers will be able to send other data as well: pictures. Along with cockpit controls —airspeed, altitude & vario, battery life, temperature, GPS with inertial correction— in the future video feed will just be another option to use; video links will be as standard as software V-tail mixers are now. As well (at least it's possible and I sincerely hope it's done) a more realistic 'pilot view' sphere of vision. Predicted progress.

Technological progress is inevitable, and the AMA is extremely smart to face it, embrace it, and work it into their standards. The problem modelers face right now is the Park system and the FAA, both executive branches who both recently got tweaked by a non-citizen. Some of it is the bureaucratic fear of not controlling everything, some payback for the tweaking, and some rebellion against the Congressional mandate to leave modeling alone.
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Old Jul 07, 2014, 11:16 PM
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If I was hiking in a park I certainly wouldn't want a drone recording my movements. Isn't that why we go to these parks in the first place? To get away from probing eyes and technology and enjoy nature? No one hates the Obama Administration more than I do with their fingers in every thing we do but drones with cameras in national park would annoy me, unless seriously regulated.
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Old Jul 08, 2014, 02:18 AM
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United States, CA, San Luis Obispo
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It is a plain fact that any federal gov't regulation is going to be f'ed up. It is just a matter of how badly they will screw it up. Politicians sole purpose is to stay elected to maintain their power. Right now everyone thinks that "drones" are bad and any person with an RC plane is equivalent to a Predator with a Hellfire. So the politicians try to side with those people and enforce new laws to appease them and stay elected.

What needs to happen is for the RC community to gain enough electoral power to convince politicians that we can keep them elected if they leave RC alone. THAT is a tough road.

There is a huge parallel to anti-gun politics, but we don't have the lobbying power of the NRA, so I am afraid that we are going to get hosed. If the AMA were smart, they would look at the NRA business model and try to figure out how to expand their power base in DC.

That is just my personal analysis, I could be wrong.
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Old Jul 08, 2014, 08:51 AM
Turn down for what?
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Does anybody have a link to the actual NPS document on this? I have found several articles from various news avenues but haven't been able to find the actual NPS document on this.

Ryan
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Old Jul 08, 2014, 10:26 AM
Jim C Patrick
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Shenandoah County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwoebke View Post
Does anybody have a link to the actual NPS document on this? I have found several articles from various news avenues but haven't been able to find the actual NPS document on this.
Ryan

Here is the announcement, and the actual order is here.
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Old Jul 08, 2014, 11:15 AM
In the Dunes
Chesterton, IN
Joined Dec 2003
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I've followed this situation as closerly as I can since I have been an avid slope flyer for years. My flying site (Mt. Baldy, Indiana Dunes Nat. Lakeshore) has been closed for the past 3 years due to other considerations that I won't get into (Non-flying related) but I remain hopeful that it will again be available soon.
I did read that if R/C flying is presently allowed at a National Park, that those programs will continue despite the "drone ban". I can only hope that this will remain the case.
I have found that in many cases, the management of the National Parks (with the possible exceptions of the "mega" parks like Yosemite or Yellowstone) are accessable and in most cases, willing to listen to reasonable arguments. Don't hesitate to call someone. Most of any park's staff are listed on the NPS website under the specific park. A few of us that fly have managed to save our flying privilages in this manner a few times over the years. Try it. It might work.

Papermache
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Old Jul 08, 2014, 12:35 PM
Turn down for what?
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papermache View Post
My flying site (Mt. Baldy, Indiana Dunes Nat. Lakeshore) has been closed for the past 3 years
I did not know that. I haven't flown there in a long time but had no knowledge that it was closed. I might have just shown back up with a model on a family trip.

Ryan
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Old Jul 10, 2014, 12:15 PM
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In another thread I posted how National Geographic got unrestricted flying of a helicopter in Yosemite for filming. The head of Nat Geo knows Jonathan B. Jarvis the director of the national parks and he ordered Yosemite to allow the helicopter to fly and film this spring. I guess it is who you know and lots of $$$$$

Here is the law just put on the books. The funny thing about the Superintendent's Compendium is that they can make up any law they want with out public input.

Launching, landing or operating an unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered
by the National Park Service within the boundaries of Yosemite National Park is prohibited except
as approved in writing by the superintendent.
36 CFR § 1.5(a)(1); 36 CFR § 1.5(f)

This restriction is to protect the public from hazards and preserve the park’s natural, aesthetic, and scenic
values. The use of machine airborne or controlled devices, such as Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) or
drones, has the potential to interfere with public safety by posing an in-flight hazard to emergency helicopter use
in the park. The use of these devices also has the potential to disrupt wildlife by interrupting migration, nesting,
mating, and hunting activities to include, but not limited to, protected species such as the Peregrine Falcon. This
restriction is in accordance with NPS Management Policy 8.2 which prohibits recreational uses that conflict with
the scenic values and view sheds that the park was designated to protect and the associated activities in which
individuals seek solitude and tranquility with an expectation of privacy. Furthermore, the use in designated
Wilderness Areas violates the Wilderness Act, which prohibits motorized equipment. An interim measure may be
put into place at a later date after the park administration evaluates the appropriateness of this new use on a
long-term basis.
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Last edited by yosemitez; Jul 10, 2014 at 12:20 PM.
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