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Old Nov 08, 2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indoor_fr View Post
It's been 2 years that i use the UFO-8-Z-12 motors from walkera . They have a longer can and are stronger. They can handle 5V, if you want to get more thrust (with a dc converter).
.
The internal resistance is 2 ohms.

You can buy them here for example:
http://www.helipal.com/ufo-8--z-12-motor-set.html

The 7mm motors with longer cans that you find at BSD are probably the same as the walkera motors.
Those look like great motors and a fair price comparing them to BSD motors. Might order some of those in the future. Not much data on the site as to weight, kv, or anything else. Thank you for the great link.

Fred
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 09:19 AM
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Southlake, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie B View Post
1.8 - 1.6 ohm would be a hotter wind than the 2,3. Now I am happy that I ordered the Flyzone motors. They state 12.000 KV on the Tower Website. I wonder what the kv is on your 2.3 ohm motors.

Fred
They are good motors... and GREAT motors for the price. Gordon Johnson tested the Flyzone motors and was surprised how much thrust they made vs. previously available 7mm's.

Kev,

One suggested improvement to the 20 - 22mm fans. The Case is VERY deep. Taking .150" - .200" off the length would save weight, make it easier to install the fans on the motor (they wouldn't be so deep in the hole) and would still keep the fan shrouded.

On very light builds... Like if someone wanted to scale up Joe's durobatics A-10 to AR6400 gear, Maybe 1/2 a gram could be saved, and the CG of the fan gets moved .150 - .200" further forward.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 10:50 AM
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UNGN,

The shortened shroud would be nice sometimes, and maybe even cut all the way back to the stator vanes if you really wanted to save weight, like the GP 30mm fan does. However a quick cut with a razor saw, a sanding block, and the shroud is whatever length you want.

I did a bit of experimenting today with the AH 7mm motor since I had it, and since I did not have Kev's rotor, I made one from aluminum. I also made a tiny prop adaptor to make it all work. I think I can make a second rotor that will be even more efficient but i worked OK for a first try. Most interesting is I did acheive almost the same loading on the motor as I formed the blades on the rotor during the test. Thrust is also almost the same. Pushing over 7.2g after over a minute or two passed on a fresh cell, and 0.6A draw.

This is now a 22mm EDF putting out as almost much as the AH 30mm EDF. Of course this is using the exact same motor and equipment on both tests. Not bad considering that the diameter differance from 30mm down to 22mm is a reduction in area of 47.2%. I calculate that the 30mm has 706.8mm/2 to the 22mm having 380.1mm/2.

I am sure brushless could do more, but at much higher wingloadins as the equipment, batteries, and motors grow in weight. A ligh brushed system is still one of my favorite ways of motivating micro projects. I am eagar to try one of the Flyzone moters when they arrive.

More to come. If Kev wants this posted elsewhere, let me know. More to come

Fred


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Old Nov 08, 2012, 12:24 PM
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Southlake, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie B View Post
UNGN,

The shortened shroud would be nice sometimes, and maybe even cut all the way back to the stator vanes if you really wanted to save weight, like the GP 30mm fan does. However a quick cut with a razor saw, a sanding block, and the shroud is whatever length you want.
The Bellmouthed Shrouds would have you cutting off the bellmouth. Also, since the motor support has a lip on this version, the motor can only be loaded from the back and its very hard for human sized fingers to install the fan way down in the hole.

Earlier versions didn't have this lip and the motor could be pushed forward, fan installed and motor pushed back. I like the lip, because it provides a positive forward stop for the motor, but installing the fan on the motor is tough.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 02:26 PM
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I'll respond to everyone later today. Just letting everyone know that I hear you.

Oh and you're good FB.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 03:11 PM
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How do you live bim? It's 22-10 right now almost time to sleep! Or do you get night duty
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 04:49 PM
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Actually it's only ~17:45 right now. I don't sleep at nights though.


Shortened shroud:

I looked at the units from the last set and I thought the same thing for the 20mm and 22mm. The reason why I did that was because I knew there would be rotors. I just was not sure what kind of rotors. The 20mm (7mm and 8.4mm) is actually 4.5mm longer than the 6mm version: 15.5mm compared to 11mm (both without lips). The 10mm version has that extra 4.5mm for obvious reasons.

About bringing them back to the start of the stators. I could do that, but I was personally considering the little "bump" that would be caused as the air transitions to the stators from the rotor.

The extended stators provide two functions. They do give a little bit more stator area, but they are really their to support the motor hub. Anyone who has these units know just how fragile they are.

The lip on the 22mm shrouds are actually much bigger than the 20mm so that adds to the length a lot. It actually has the same no lip length as the 20mm (7-10mm).

Intake Lip/Bell: (this applies to the finer units)

The intake lip actually adds to the cylindrical integrity of the units. It sort off acts like a T or I beam. The larger units without the intake lip has a ring or two along the unit. The shrouds are also a little thicker than I would like them to be because of this. They are .5mm when ideal would be .3mm. The stators are between .3mm and .5mm depending on the point of the airfoil. Yes there is a foil there. It's just very thin.



I'm really here for you guys. I can't do it without you. Just let me know.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 06:30 PM
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The bellmouth Lip really adds to the structural integredy, compared to the no lip sample i had earlier. It also should measurably increase thrust vs. a non bellmouth shroud.

With a cut down GWS fan, the deep housings make more sense, because its twice as long as the BIM 4 blade fan. But since the BIM fan makes more thrust, the housing could be shortened with no downsides i can see. Maybe only .15g of material will come off, but installing the fans won't be so tricky.

The Fan ends up being pretty deep inside the Housing:


But for only being .4g heavier than the much flimsier 1st gen, housing, these new housings are terrific.

Thanks a Ton for making these.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 07:29 PM
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There we go! I had the GWS rotors in mind when I set the length. I could just chop it down to the 11mm length.

...a little chopping later...

It looks really stubby at only 11mm. Just might have to keep an extra mm.

I found the original order just for kicks. That file was created November 17, 2010! It has been two years. I want to think that we got pretty far.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 11:17 PM
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I should probably go to sleep...
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 03:22 PM
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No! Sleep is the devil!

edit: on a weird note, i wrote that in all caps.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Thank you Bob Selman, and BSD Micro RC, LLC

First, thank you to Bob Selman for a great response on brushed 7mm can motors. I am sure you have all heard of Bob, and he has been a great supporter and inovator of micro RC for years. Do visit Bob's website at BSD Micro RC, LLC.

According to Bob, he does carry the quality 7mm motors from Walkera and is a USA Distributor of these and other quality products. Here is the response on the 7mm motors:

My Long Can 7mm motors are the Walkera motors. Their resistance is 1.4 ohms.

Orange 3.3 ohms Didel/Super Slick

Red 2.3 ohms Didel/Super Slick

Blue 1.7 ohms Didel/Super Slick

Long Can 1.4 ohms Walkera quadracopter

Black 1.1 ohms Flyzone Playmate

Lower resistance means higher Kv. I do not have any quantitative data though.

Bob


Not only did Bob answer all my questions with great information, he also pointed out something we can all be grateful for. Note above that Bob has tested the Black Flyzone motors from the Playmate, AND included that information to help us all out. This is a 1.1 ohm motor and the hotest wind I have any knowledge of. UNGN is using these on his tests, and I had ordered some myself. I now have my Flyzone motors and will test them against the AH motors I already tested.

Thanks again Bob, and I thank you for all the great information and helpful nature you are known for.

Fred
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:51 PM
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Hmmm, the long can 1.4 looks tasty.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 11:53 AM
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I'll have everything in on Monday.
I'll hopefully send them out by Wednesday.

Edit... I completely forgot that next week is Thanksgiving. I'm going away so I'll try my best to send them out on the Thursday or Friday.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredom.is.me View Post
I'll have everything in on Monday.
I'll hopefully send them out by Wednesday.

Edit... I completely forgot that next week is Thanksgiving. I'm going away so I'll try my best to send them out on the Thursday or Friday.
Hehehehehe, Thanksgiving is Thursday, and the post person will be eating Turkey! LOL. We will be here when ever it is! LOL! I have been testing motors, but I need rotors so that results are consistant and I can rely on twins!

Fred
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