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Old Aug 11, 2015, 01:32 PM
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Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
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F3K a turnaround contest?

So this thread will probably be either really controversial or die really quickly.

Here's the point:

Is F3K becoming a turnaround contest? Before you start spouting statistics about how many people missed time in which rounds at the worlds, understand the word BECOMING. I don't think we've reached a cliff yet but I do see one coming. Five years ago there were maxes in F3K contests. Lots of them, but nothing like I think it will be in another year or two. Seems though like every year the airframes get a bit better, people throw a little higher, air reading skills increase, and other changes take place that are rapidly obsoleting our competition as we know it.

What is the fix? Do we need more separation or are we okay with the contest being determined by a slip or a bobble on a QT? Do we need to measure tenths or hundredths of seconds? Do we need smaller airframes? Minimum weights? No flying between rounds / scouting air? No helper or timer input to the pilot other than reading the flight time and window time? How about new tasks? Longer flight windows? Eliminate the throwing peg?

Do we need to fix it or do you feel that it's not broken?

I have my opinions but would like to see what everyone else thinks.
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 01:44 PM
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Yes..ok..maybe..lol.....
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No helper or timer input other then reading the flight time/window time/ or addressing safety issues on launching or landing. Would make it more of an individual sport then a team sport.
Less stress on the timers too.
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 01:50 PM
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Lots of sports are separated by very small margins at the highest level. I'm not sure it needs to be fixed. It's not like a lot of $ or anything depend on the results. It's all for fun and bragging rights. And it's nice to think that even though I've only been flying f3k for a year I can on some days compete, and maybe even beat (if I make fewer mistakes), with the guys that have been doing it for years
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 01:51 PM
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I also think having a timer/helper/team mate for a round increases the enjoyment/fun factor
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 01:57 PM
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Yes..ok..maybe..lol.....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintc View Post
I also think having a timer/helper/team mate for a round increases the enjoyment/fun factor
..Depends on the timer/helper.............
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 01:58 PM
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New tasks. There have been some pretty good suggestions recently.

Sean
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shhhhh! View Post
No helper or timer input other then reading the flight time/window time/ or addressing safety issues on launching or landing.
Less stress on the timers too.
As a timer, these are the things that cause me the most stress! Trying to predict what the other pilots are going to do as they jockey for position for a quick turnaround and let my pilot know what to watch out for all while being as accurate as possible with the count, in some situations can be the hardest thing a timer has to do. . .

Tom
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 02:00 PM
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hot air rises...
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When conditions are perfect a contest inevitably becomes QT centered BUT conditions at contests are very seldom perfect so contests seldom become QT centered. I don't think it's broke and don't really think it'll ever be broke, but could be wrong.

I think longer task windows (12 - 15 min) would fit some fun task variations though.
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 02:03 PM
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Helper/timer

I believe it would be very detrimental to our hobby/sport to mute the timer in regards to helping the pilot find/identify lift, specially for a frustrated beginner.

I've been flying F3K since April, 2015 and have learned a lot from other pilots in regard to aircraft set-up as well as learning what the aircraft looks like when it's in very light lift. Pointers on how not to repeat the many mistakes I make. I would still be attempting to determine this information if the timer could only tell me what the task is and the time.
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 02:08 PM
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Peter Madsen
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A simple thing would be trying to eliminate or minimize scouting before the round. Make a 1 minute or something like that, of no flying before the window. It's possible to do this already. Just need to make it happen at some of the bigger events to see if it puts more emphasis on air reading skills.

One thing to be careful about is not to make the rules/tasks so difficult that they become frustrating to the average Joe, just for the need to separate the top 10 in the world.
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 02:12 PM
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If you really really think we need to make it harder at the top level, don't hold those contests in summer. Pick early spring, late fall, or gasp!, the dead of winter

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Old Aug 11, 2015, 02:13 PM
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New, rational tasks and longer window times I think will just be a natural progression of the event. The "big ladder" is a good example. Measuring to the tenth of a second I also think is the right thing to do in terms of measurement accuracy. Rounding or truncating doesn't really make sense when we know we can reasonably measure to within 1 or 2 tenths of a second.

I'm not sure we are to the point where we need to mess with anything else. I do think encouraging the CD to be flexible on when he declares which tasks are to be flown based on conditions is a step in the right direction. We have been dealing with tight scores in the duration task of F3B for a long time. More often than not, duration is flown in the early morning or late evening where it ends up being a float and poke task giving very little separation. Most decent F3B models are good for 10 minutes off of a good launch in flat conditions. More recently, some events have been intentionally flying the speed task in the flat morning conditions to make it more fair and duration when the air is active in the middle of the day. This small change in contest procedure has lead to more variation in the duration task results, sometimes not a lot, but enough to make things more interesting, and is all within the current rules.

Tom
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 02:13 PM
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I don't feel like anything is broken. After spending the better part of 2 weeks watching and flying against the best there is, I have no doubts that regardless of the conditions, the best pilots would have ended up on top. That conditions were so good only made it more critical to not make mistakes, but again in the end, the best came out on top. I don't think new tasks would have mattered or changed anything.
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 02:15 PM
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Kyle Clayton
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I'm with the new/modified task crowd. People want separation in scores and bigger challenges, then change the tasks to solve that problem. I also have no issue with tasks not being set until the morning of, and with new tech like Adrian's ticket printer that option is much more realistic.
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Old Aug 11, 2015, 02:16 PM
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Remember this is for fun and bragging rights. No one is going to make a living flying F3K.
Like pro golf - you have good days and bad days. One bad shot can lose the tournament.

New tasks like the deuce, modified deuce, and the Big Ladder may provide some separation.

I, for one, will never get to that high of a level but enjoy watching the tight competition and learning from the pros.

Often I think we all may take this too seriously. It is for enjoyment
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