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Old Today, 06:04 PM
EArHog is online now
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Joined Feb 2013
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Originally Posted by joaodrp View Post
These are not 6040, they are the 5040 from surveilzone. They are super strong, a lot of crashes without a single dent. They are weaker in terms of thrust but that's not my priority now.
Ooops. Fooled me. Good choice for learning acro. I wish I'd had a set last year. I'd have saved a couple hundred bucks, for real.

You will enjoy 6 inch props on your WQ. Make that switch as soon as you can.
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Old Today, 06:08 PM
NullVoxPopuli is online now
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United States, IN, Fishers
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Originally Posted by EArHog View Post
All this recent discussion of PID filtering, and Black Box revelation of previously undetected oscillations damaging efficiency (and KISS-killing) got me to wondering what I might ought to do with PID's in my MultiWii models.

I went to my MotoWarp 200 and lowered P from 4.0 to 3.0, and lowered D considerably. And I'm like Wow! Suddenly my little 200 has some kick. It's got muscles I never imagined. And this new found kick is coming from little 1306's. It's an amazing transformation.

When I watch How To Tune PID's videos they tell us to start low and raise P until the quad suffers obviously bad behavior, and then lower P until that bad behavior goes away. But after the Black Box discoveries I'm thinking we might turn that process completely around. Maybe start high and lower P until it starts acting funny, and then raise it until it starts acting right. In other words, put P on the bottom boundary of "good enough" instead of at the top edge.

Those Black Box graphs look like a bowl of schizoid spaghetti to me - can't make nothing out of all that. So maybe if I can begin to get some grasp of what all those squiggles mean I can refine my theory.
Yeah, a blackbox tuning guide would be great!
I'm about to start blackbox tuning.
Do we want completely smooth lines? Is there a way to quantify the change in wiigly P, I, and D lines?
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Old Today, 06:16 PM
EArHog is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NullVoxPopuli View Post
Yeah, a blackbox tuning guide would be great!
I'm about to start blackbox tuning.
Do we want completely smooth lines? Is there a way to quantify the change in wiigly P, I, and D lines?
I hope to get some guidance in learning how to implement Black Box on the MotoF3. I think it may be easier to manage on that FC because it's got some flash memory built in (), and maybe I won't have to transfer files and open other programs, and complicated stuff. And then, phase 2, maybe I can learn to do it with the Tornado.

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Old Today, 07:11 PM
waltr is online now
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United States, PA, Doylestown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EArHog View Post
All this recent discussion of PID filtering, and Black Box revelation of previously undetected oscillations damaging efficiency (and KISS-killing) got me to wondering what I might ought to do with PID's in my MultiWii models.

I went to my MotoWarp 200 and lowered P from 4.0 to 3.0, and lowered D considerably. And I'm like Wow! Suddenly my little 200 has some kick. It's got muscles I never imagined. And this new found kick is coming from little 1306's. It's an amazing transformation.

When I watch How To Tune PID's videos they tell us to start low and raise P until the quad suffers obviously bad behavior, and then lower P until that bad behavior goes away. But after the Black Box discoveries I'm thinking we might turn that process completely around. Maybe start high and lower P until it starts acting funny, and then raise it until it starts acting right. In other words, put P on the bottom boundary of "good enough" instead of at the top edge.

Those Black Box graphs look like a bowl of schizoid spaghetti to me - can't make nothing out of all that. So maybe if I can begin to get some grasp of what all those squiggles mean I can refine my theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NullVoxPopuli View Post
Yeah, a blackbox tuning guide would be great!
I'm about to start blackbox tuning.
Do we want completely smooth lines? Is there a way to quantify the change in wiigly P, I, and D lines?
Good observation and trying new PID value EArHog. Some of the newer PID tuning discussions are recommending raising 'P' unto you get oscillations then reducing 'P' to 50-60% (if oscillates at P=4 then reduce to P=2 - 2.4).
I think some of this is due to the lower Loop Times the newer FC boards can run at and running Solid mounted FCs (instead of foam mounted) with little Gyro filtering (gyro_lpf = 98 or higher). The PIDs now do not need to be so high to get good solid control.

Are you running fast ESCs on your WQ200 (can't remember if you have KISS or not). The newer ESCs and newer ESC Firmware has also improved the response and is probably another major contributor to changes in how we should be tuning.

BlackBox does show what is really happening in the PID Controller. Yes, figuring out what it all means is not easy. Best if you adjust PID values and then see in the BB log what changed to learn to interpret of graphs. The lines you want smooth are the motor outputs and when running the log real time the motor graphics should not look like hungry Pac mans. Any oscillations in the PID's Will show up in the motors.
I have just been through Tuning the new Boris' filters on a mini-H. For these BlackBox is absolutely required. The copter seemed to fly well but the BB Log was showing noise, oscillations at times and some other stuff. Once I get these tuned out the copter did flying so much smoother and 'locked in'.

It is too bad the MultiWii board do not support BB but great that the new Moto WQ FC will run CF so the BB logging can be used. I expect some very finely tuned Warp Quads later this year.
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