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Old Sep 15, 2014, 05:22 PM
Ah, so its THIS again. . .
Ronin055's Avatar
United States, NV, Sparks
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Sterling Yacht America

Hey Guys !!

Ive got a fun one going on here. Ive got the beginnings to a Sterling Models Kit of Yacht America.

Its the 51" version with the 41" mast.

What I have is the Keel, and bulkheads put together. I have the Plans on the HUGE sheet of paper, double sided printed, and I have the sail material.

What I don't have is everything else.

For anyone familier with this yacht, I have a couple of questions.

1 : how do we go about putting ballast in her? I mean I can clearly see that she was meant to be free sailed, and optionally RC sailed in a fairly limited fashion. But no where in the plans is there a mention of ballast. Im assuming I need to fashion either a metal fin along the wooden keel, or I need to create a removable fin and bulb to attach when she goes in the water.

2 : Ive noticed in all images of her, either in old photos, line drawings or paintings, and yes even the plans, that the boom on the middle sail extends past the rear or main mast. So my question is, how does it traverse? In my one meter and RG65 yachts, the sail boom can and does traverse from center line to nearly 90 degrees. How can the center sail of a Schooner traverse if its going to hit the main mast? Or am I not understanding period design and or intent? Do these ships in fact NOT allow their booms to swing wide?

Well that's what I've got my hands on, and that's the questions I have for the moment.
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Old Sep 15, 2014, 08:09 PM
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1. removable fin and bulb would be a good idea - maybe even a non scale rudder to use when sailing.

2. The original sail plan on the America the "middle sail" (Foresail) did overlap the mast - while it did have a gaff, it did not have a boom. it was loose footed and tacked/trimmed much like a jib. Later, America was modified (significantly) and the foresail's foot was shortened and a boom added. You may need to compromise and give your model the later rig.

A lot can be done with this model.

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Old Sep 16, 2014, 07:22 AM
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United States, MD, Severna Park
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The loose footed fores'l need not be a problem... America's relatives, the Baltimore Clippers had the same set-up, plus square tops'ls: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5#post28486003
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 10:59 AM
Ah, so its THIS again. . .
Ronin055's Avatar
United States, NV, Sparks
Joined Jan 2013
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Well I kinda want to outfit the America as she was during the civil war. I know that while in the possession of the north, she was armed. And I think that is the direction Im going with her.

Ok so Im going to have to build a keel fin box, and a fin and a weight. no worries. Im betting I could use the fin off of a rg65. The whole America is only like 41 inches tall. So I dont think shes going to need to pack that much weight. What, maybe 5 lbs?

Now I just have to figure out where to place that weight.
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 12:14 PM
Ah, so its THIS again. . .
Ronin055's Avatar
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OK other than the implied "where to put the keel fin" question above I have another question.

When I get this hull planked, I was considering putting fiberglass matting in side it to make it more rigid.

So I was just reading elsewhere, and I think I understand that you take the built hull with all the bulkheads in it, and you fiberglass it inside and then remove the majority of the bulkheads. Is this correct? And then do you fiberglass resin the outside of the hull too? It seems prudent to me, but what do I know really.
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 01:20 PM
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As for where to put the fin...

You should place it relative the the center of effort (CE) of the sail plan. The CE of the fin should be on or slightly aft of the CE of the sails.

You can also assume the the sail's CE is already placed relative to the hull's center of lateral plane (CLP) and place it relative to that.
The CLP is generally at the middle of the waterline, fore-n-aft. There's two actually, one with the rudder, and one without the rudder included in the measurement. I'd use the measurement without the rudder.

Building the hull, you should eally, take a look at my Pride of Baltimore thread - I've made enough errors in there to save you a lot of heart-ache - for instance:

How ever you make your fin attachment (I made a dagger-board trunk set-up) do it before you stand up frames, plank, etc; do it while you can lay the keel flat. Don't cut a hole in the hull after it's all planked up, etc, like I did (see above).

Another item. Once the planking is on, and I really suggest you forgo the kit's sheet planking and go with actual planks, maybe 3/8" wide. Lay up a layer of light cloth, 4oz can be had from Duckworks, on the outside. The cloth outside works like shrink-wrap, holds everything together, and seals it up. Just paint the inside with resin to seal it up. Polyester resin can be had from Home Despot, Lowes, or one of those sorts of places, relatively cheap. That's really all she needs.

Macedonian in 1:36 scale; built in the manner described with pine planking over plywood forms.

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Old Sep 16, 2014, 04:20 PM
Ah, so its THIS again. . .
Ronin055's Avatar
United States, NV, Sparks
Joined Jan 2013
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Well the problem is that the keel is already put together with the bulkheads. So while I see and understand your point about creating the keel fin box, I think I may be unable to do that at this point. Also, I think Im going to have to plank her, then cut a hole in the bottom and fit the keel fin.

And just to be sure Im clear on this, the COE is at the waterline halfway between the bow and the rudder. Is that correct?
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 05:44 PM
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The point here is you want to place the center of lateral plane (or center of effort if you like) of your fin ON the existing CLP of the hull. The balance between the CE and CLP already exists as you are building an historical vessel where this was already determined.

The simplest thing to do is measure the center of the waterline (without the rudder) and call that the CLP.

You could make a cardboard cut out of the underwater hull, either full-size or scaled down, and balance it on a pin. THAT is the CLP. Extend a line from there to the waterline, that is 90 to the waterline. Do the same for the exposed portion of your fin. Place the fin so it's CLP is on the CLP of the hull and that's it.
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Old Sep 18, 2014, 06:45 PM
Ah, so its THIS again. . .
Ronin055's Avatar
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got it.

Do you have any idea what scale this boat is supposed to be? I think its 1/60 but im not sure.
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 06:36 PM
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Hey, you PM'd me but I can't figure out how to reply to you. I just finished this model. The ballast is supposed to be lead shot. I bought a used 5lb soft dive weight from a scuba dive shop. I poured it into the hull and set in my tub and moved shot around until the boat floated level. Then at the directions suggest, poured fiberglass resin on top to secure the shot in place. After it cured, I poured more resin into the hull and rolled it around to coat the insides. I did glass the outside of the hull also.
As for the rig, I was worried about the sheets becoming tangled under decks so I glued copper ice-maker tubing from the three locations to where the sheets were to go down. I flared the top of the tubes and had them come an inch above the decks. I'm glad I did that because in a brisk wind, water does come up on the decks.
I cut the Foresail's foot down and installed a boom. It works great!
I have sailed it several times and even raced it against a Marconi rigged sloop of the same size and it keeps up nicely. You don't need a fin keel, the ballest inside the hull works as planned.
If you have more questions, call me, Wayne, at 340-998-5199 or email me at yachtflame@yahoo.com
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 09:14 PM
Ah, so its THIS again. . .
Ronin055's Avatar
United States, NV, Sparks
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I would love to see pictures of your finished boat.

Well as I said, I dont have the whole kit in the box. And I only have the frame work and the big fold out instructions.

So a friend of mine gave me a bunch of maple planking. Im thinking of using it, although I dont know. I wish it was longer. the strips do not run the whole length of the hull.

Heres what I have.
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Old Sep 25, 2014, 11:14 PM
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I'd be so tempted to sheath it diagonally, then another layer at right-angles to the first, and a third layer like normal planking. Then you don't need any structure inside and the hull will be boat-shaped plywood (cold-molded)
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Old Sep 26, 2014, 11:24 AM
Ah, so its THIS again. . .
Ronin055's Avatar
United States, NV, Sparks
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Well what I want to do is plank it and then fiberglass it inside and out. I think Im going to leave that sub floor loose in the hull untill I put the ballast in the boat. Id like to put the ballast low . I really think Im going to need a removable keel in this though. I know shes small and all that, but the wind I sail in here is regularly 8 - 12 mph. and I think keeping her upright is going to be a chore.

Where do I go from here guys? Do I start planking? then put in a dagger box? Or should i structure a dagger box now? I dont know how that would work. Im worried that it would come appart if I started cutting on the frame work right now.

Also, one thought I had was to put in a dagger box with a piece of aluminum that would end up even with the existing keel. Then I could bolt to that for an extended keel fin and bulb.

Just ideas at this point. but still feeling lost.
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Old Sep 28, 2014, 07:29 PM
Ah, so its THIS again. . .
Ronin055's Avatar
United States, NV, Sparks
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I really need help from some of the experienced builders on here.

I need some direction. How would You proceed from where I am now ?
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Old Sep 28, 2014, 11:50 PM
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I wasn't kidding. With veneer, I'd do a diagonal layer, then a "normal" planked layer over that. 4 oz cloth over the outside, and just resin inside. The only frames you're need are for motors, servo decks, ballast bracing.
When you cold-mold, the hull is basically it's own frame.

See my Pride of Baltimore.
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Or better, Macedonian
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