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Old Sep 27, 2011, 01:27 AM
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Joined Aug 2006
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Firepower,
Good Call on making sure i have my thrust angle set up properly before mounting the motor plate.

i'm actually waiting for my motor to arrive in the mail... but in the mean time we can talk physics and P-Factor just for giggles and so i can see what effect if any is has on a Northrop Grumman inspired Fuselage-less aircraft.

In pusher prop applications, sighting from the tail forward along the fuselage, and the propeller spinning counter-clockwise. The torque effect is up and to the right (toward 1:30 on a clock face), but the motor and torque are AFT of the CG, so the effect to the nose of the airframe is down and to the left (toward 7:30). To compensate for that, the motor thrust line must be compensated up and to the right of the nose (again, when viewed from the tail forward along the fuselage).

So a projected vector of the motor’s shaft will pass up, over your left shoulder for a counter-clockwise pusher setup.

And a projected vector of the motor’s shaft will pass up, over your right shoulder for a clockwise pusher setup.

I generally use about 2deg offset lateral thrust & about the same or less to angle the motor in the vertical component.

cheers,
Brian
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Old Sep 27, 2011, 04:44 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSLow2Care View Post
Firepower,
Good Call on making sure i have my thrust angle set up properly before mounting the motor plate.

i'm actually waiting for my motor to arrive in the mail... but in the mean time we can talk physics and P-Factor just for giggles and so i can see what effect if any is has on a Northrop Grumman inspired Fuselage-less aircraft.

In pusher prop applications, sighting from the tail forward along the fuselage, and the propeller spinning counter-clockwise. The torque effect is up and to the right (toward 1:30 on a clock face), but the motor and torque are AFT of the CG, so the effect to the nose of the airframe is down and to the left (toward 7:30). To compensate for that, the motor thrust line must be compensated up and to the right of the nose (again, when viewed from the tail forward along the fuselage).

So a projected vector of the motor’s shaft will pass up, over your left shoulder for a counter-clockwise pusher setup.

And a projected vector of the motor’s shaft will pass up, over your right shoulder for a clockwise pusher setup.

I generally use about 2deg offset lateral thrust & about the same or less to angle the motor in the vertical component.

cheers,
Brian
Too much information. Just joking. I'll put it simple.

Firstly normal people (just joking again) have the prop going the other way. Looking from the back the prop turns clockwise. So in the attached photo the prop is turning clockwise from the rear but I have turned the motor MUCH more than it is suppose to be just so that the angle can be seen easily. I guess the same applies to a normal pylon plane and a flying wing.

I just glued the mount down flat on the wing and hoped the manufacturer got the angle up and down correct. For gluing the mount use THICK THICK THICK CA. My motor angle from left to right is perfectly straight and it does not seem to be a problem. With my fast motor I can go slow close to the ground and put on full power and it goes perfectly straight which is great.
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Last edited by Firepower; Sep 27, 2011 at 07:21 AM.
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Old Sep 27, 2011, 06:57 PM
scotland uk
Joined Jan 2005
1,443 Posts
I'm looking to buying this plane. I noticed a few people have added all the Eletrics on top of the wing. That's what I'm doing. I think it's a bit daft having it on the bottom.
This is the set up I plan to use

http://www.giantcod.co.uk/a220812-18...-p-405608.html
6x4 sport prop and 30 amp esc.
X2 9 gram servos
1000mah 3s

Thoughts please?

Thanks
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Old Sep 28, 2011, 12:20 AM
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Joined Aug 2006
380 Posts
Wish,

your motor and prop should be plenty to get you flying around. i don't think that setup will go vertical, but theoretically with that size battery, your airframe should be nice and light.

you should be able to get away with a larger battery on the swift. at least a 1300mAh 3S if not larger. i've read a bit about cramming a 2200mAh 3S into these.

please, someone else chime in about battery size.

flight duration really interests me with these wings.

Ta mi caraid,
Brian

& Firepower - I live on humor. I spend my days split between a laboratory designing and building medical centrifuges and flying helicopters... so theory and application are huge in my book, but humor is bigger!!! probably one of most fun things to to in the helis is when my passengers ask how long i've been flying... "this is my first day! how am i doing?!" that gets everyone laughing an comfortable. we take a lot of first time flyers so there's a bit f nerves there, but i digress. you take all the shots you like, i don't get offended.

Cheers,
Brian
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Old Sep 28, 2011, 12:43 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wishawhunk View Post
I'm looking to buying this plane. I noticed a few people have added all the Eletrics on top of the wing. That's what I'm doing. I think it's a bit daft having it on the bottom.
This is the set up I plan to use

http://www.giantcod.co.uk/a220812-18...-p-405608.html
6x4 sport prop and 30 amp esc.
X2 9 gram servos
1000mah 3s

Thoughts please?

Thanks
Seeing I have a Swift and 2 Mini Swifts I can let you know how best to do it from my mistakes. That includes putting "stuff on top" and making it look good.

I'll let you know tonight when I have plenty of time and will get back to TooSLow2Care also. (I like the one about the first day flying)
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Old Sep 28, 2011, 07:46 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wishawhunk View Post
I'm looking to buying this plane. I noticed a few people have added all the Eletrics on top of the wing. That's what I'm doing. I think it's a bit daft having it on the bottom.
This is the set up I plan to use

http://www.giantcod.co.uk/a220812-18...-p-405608.html
6x4 sport prop and 30 amp esc.
X2 9 gram servos
1000mah 3s

Thoughts please?

Thanks
If you still want it to look good you can put the servos in from the bottom and just cut a small hole for the servo arm. I mean SMALL hole. On one of my Mini Swifts I cut what I thought was a small hole but on the second one made it a lot smaller. Just start with a knife slit for the servo arm at first and you will be amazed how small the hole for the servo arm only needs to be.

I had the 30amp Esc in the usual place on the mount but now have it in the foam underneath with the heat sink exposed. It is preferred to not put the Esc in the foam but mine looked great from the top for a while as I had nothing on the top of the wing. My push rods are underneath also but have never had a problem with them as I have a old round servo arm glued in beside the push rod protecting them.

Now mine looks terrible but that is what I now need for the FPV flying with a FY-20 gyro sitting on top also.

Be interested in what you think of the motor but it is way too small for me. At least the 30amp Esc will do when you upgrade the motor which I am sure you will.

EDIT: Here is a picture of a Mini Swift showing the small slit only required for the servo arm. I realise the arm and throw is a bit smaller than the Swift but I used to cut big ugly holes for them.
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Old Sep 28, 2011, 08:00 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSLow2Care View Post
Wish,

your motor and prop should be plenty to get you flying around. i don't think that setup will go vertical, but theoretically with that size battery, your airframe should be nice and light.

you should be able to get away with a larger battery on the swift. at least a 1300mAh 3S if not larger. i've read a bit about cramming a 2200mAh 3S into these.

please, someone else chime in about battery size.

flight duration really interests me with these wings.

Ta mi caraid,
Brian

& Firepower - I live on humor. I spend my days split between a laboratory designing and building medical centrifuges and flying helicopters... so theory and application are huge in my book, but humor is bigger!!! probably one of most fun things to to in the helis is when my passengers ask how long i've been flying... "this is my first day! how am i doing?!" that gets everyone laughing an comfortable. we take a lot of first time flyers so there's a bit f nerves there, but i digress. you take all the shots you like, i don't get offended.

Cheers,
Brian
You were mentioning flight duration and larger LiPos. I still have the Turnigy 2730/3000 on mine and was finding the 1000mah LiPos did not last long at all and lacked power. So I went to a 1300mah and 1500mah and they worked quite well. I really need to put my slower motor on like the Turnigy 2730/1700 and a larger prop and maybe the 1000mah will do if I did not have on it a camera, Vee antenna, video transmitter and a FY-20 stabilizer.

Lately I have been putting on a small 2200mah LiPo which has to go back a lot further than the hole I have for the LiPo underneath to get the C of G right. I just tape it on to the bottom of the wing and this big bulge of a LiPo hangs down below. It is a bit of a rough landing on the 2200mah LiPo but so far no damage.

But I think you were asking how long would a 2200mah LiPo go for. I have never timed mine but it is quite a while. It naturally depends on what the motor etc is but someone else may comment that has tried it.
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Old Sep 28, 2011, 08:10 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeR View Post
I assembled mine originally with the strapping tape as directed. However the tape didn't stick well and it covers up the graphics on the top. Some of the guys I fly with embedded a CF tube/rod in the wing and did not tape. Sure looks cleaner. They've had theirs for a couple years so I wanted to check this thread and see if anything better has come along. I'm kind of tired of the strapping tape look on EPP foamies.
We used to do on the Elle Bees as per the instructions, the fibre tape and then the colored tape but it made them heavy as they are bigger. My mate just did an Elle Bee with CF so that seems how people are going these days. I am always replacing the fibre tape as it looses its stick after going yellow on places like the leading and trailing edges. I do not really want to put the colored tape over it.

As GlideAngles mentioned the spray glue works to make the tape stick but still will not stop the uncovered fibre tape from going off. All of my foam planes have CF in them but some do their Swifts and MiniSwifts really light without any CF or tape. Maybe they fly sensibly which I do on the bigger planes but I like to throw these little ones around a lot. I have now worked out how to put the CF in without having a wide ugly slot.
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Last edited by Firepower; Sep 28, 2011 at 10:18 PM.
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Old Sep 29, 2011, 12:12 AM
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Joined Aug 2006
380 Posts
Firepower,
It looks like you have a unilateral hinge supporting your pushrods on that mini swift. I was planning to sink my servos down a bit more from where they are now and run the push rods through the styrene tubes on the Swift II, but the strene tubes will now be low enough to be low enough to be glued into the foam.

Thanks for inspiration!
Brian
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Old Sep 29, 2011, 01:01 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSLow2Care View Post
Firepower,
It looks like you have a unilateral hinge supporting your pushrods on that mini swift. I was planning to sink my servos down a bit more from where they are now and run the push rods through the styrene tubes on the Swift II, but the strene tubes will now be low enough to be low enough to be glued into the foam.

Thanks for inspiration!
Brian
From memory the Mini Swift did not have a guide but I found them impossibly to fly with my fast motors with out them as the push rods flexed too much and a bit of C of G problem.

I just glued the end of a control horn in the foam in the middle of the push rods.

The video shows what happens when the push rod flexes. This was before I put the guides in and before I worked out why it was jumping around everywhere and before I had 2.4ghz. I carry two of the mini swifts in the van all the time as they are so small. (Never know when I will need them)

Do not watch all the video it is boring but most the jumping around, loops etc are started by the plane from the bending push rods and not me intentionally doing them.

Mini Swift 19 June 2010.avi (5 min 40 sec)
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Last edited by Firepower; Sep 29, 2011 at 05:23 AM.
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 09:36 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,327 Posts
Back on to the real ones (Swifts) and not the Mini Swifts. One photo shows about the location I tape on a 2200mah LiPo and the other one shows the ugly top of the Swift.

It is ready to fly FPV and will get a chance to do it soon. (I know the Vee antenna is back to front) The FY-20 should make the FPV flying easier but will only use a 1500mah LiPo.

The arrows indicate where I have put the CF rods. The top was perfectly clear of anything and looked good before I put on the FPV stuff.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 05:13 AM
UAV Pilot
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sweden
Joined May 2007
1,006 Posts
I'm going to rebuild mine...Already crashed 2 servos due to being mounted on wrong side...I will flip horns over so they run on top side instead...
Luckily gears comes in cheap.

FPV with Swift II was not as easy as with my Skywalker...
The camera I used could not handle the task so everything below horizon was dark...
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Old Oct 15, 2011, 07:30 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by UndCon View Post
I'm going to rebuild mine...Already crashed 2 servos due to being mounted on wrong side...I will flip horns over so they run on top side instead...
Luckily gears comes in cheap.

FPV with Swift II was not as easy as with my Skywalker...
The camera I used could not handle the task so everything below horizon was dark...
I have not had any problems with my cheap servos. As seen in the photo I have glued in the wing half of an old round servo "arm". They are 2cm in length and sticks out 1cm which is a bit higher than the control horn. I'll also flip over my control horns if I do have problems.

Have you got anything protecting the control horns?

When you flip over your control horns I suppose you know you only need a very small slit for it. I have previously been putting quite a wide and long slit which looks ugly. Now I just put a neat narrow slit in the wing.

I just had my first decent flight FPV and landed myself in a AXN Floater but cheated with a FY-20. I am ready to do the Swift FPV and hopefully the FY-20 will also help.

I have only put a $16 hobbyking camera in my Swift. I guess that was a similar one you were using with light problems.
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Last edited by Firepower; Oct 15, 2011 at 01:25 PM.
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Old Oct 19, 2011, 04:25 AM
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Österreich
Joined Jul 2010
83 Posts
After test flying the Techone PopWing aka the HK Tek Sumo, I think we can forget about buying a MS Composit Swift II. The Pop Wing/Tek Sumo is superior in all points. 4" more span, better painting, battery holder with verlcro, electronics compartment, nicer and painted winglets, carbon inserts, servo plates, filament tape included and so on.
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Old Oct 20, 2011, 06:42 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by rcpaintworks View Post
After test flying the Techone PopWing aka the HK Tek Sumo, I think we can forget about buying a MS Composit Swift II. The Pop Wing/Tek Sumo is superior in all points. 4" more span, better painting, battery holder with verlcro, electronics compartment, nicer and painted winglets, carbon inserts, servo plates, filament tape included and so on.
I have enough wings at the present but the HK wings are looking really good and a lot cheaper.

This is the one you are talking about at 900mm wide and $29.99 plus postage:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=17969

I see they have this one at 1000mm wide but not as nice looking at $19.99 plus postage:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11440

To replace my MiniSwifts they have this one at 600mm wide at $20.66 plus postage:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=17968

HK also has dearer wings like the Falcon and Zagi.

Like you say in future forget about the Swift 2 as the Wing/Tek Sumo looks great. (Hope it flies as good as it looks) but I'll work with the Swift 2 for a while.

You say "After test flying" you mean you have test flown it and it is really good?
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Last edited by Firepower; Oct 20, 2011 at 06:48 AM.
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