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Old Apr 23, 2014, 01:29 PM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
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Resurrection of an older "M" Class boat

Thought I would start a new thread on my efforts to restore/resurrect an old " Marblehead boat.

Some probably would have ash-canned this one, and after it arrived I had similar thoughts. On further inspection, the most work will be to restore the hull - both shape as well as internal structure. It arrived as "Hull Only" with a lot of flex or too thick gel-coat cracks. Also have a suspicion that there may have been some port/starboard collisions (bumps?) in it's past life. If you look close in photo #1, you can see a hull in need of repair and fairing. This will be biggest challenge.

Anyway, spent some time getting the skin deck off and evaluated the internal wood structure. With all the garbage removed, and with certain wooden structure to repair or replace, I think this will be a fun challenge. I doubt that it will be competitive outside of club racing, and budget is pretty well limited. It certainly won't be on the high technology side of things. Based on previous questions posted, it was set up for a swing rig, however it may go to a standard rig just for ease of building and rigging. Jury still out on that one.

Second photo is the hull leaning on my truck, and as you can see - it is pretty sparse inside. A lot of the glue joints have failed, as have some of the wooden fillets. As noted, it doesn't appear any of the internal wood has been waterproofed - thus leading to some wood failure. Many of the glue joints look like they didn't adhere to hull or the joints have failed. Even the rudder block on bottom of the hull can be raised and glue lifts from hull along with rudder tube.

Looking into the future, I think a nice veneer wood deck and rig would look nice, especially with a light tan/gold/brown hull paint job. Just thinking for now. Will continue to post photos as work goes forward.
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Old Apr 23, 2014, 01:43 PM
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palmcoastfl
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Looks like a good project, good luck

will be watching this one
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Old Apr 23, 2014, 08:17 PM
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Mike Denest's Avatar
United States, DE, Newark
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That's an interesting bulb shape, sort of laminar flow. What does it weigh?
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Old Apr 23, 2014, 08:29 PM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
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It was part of one of the photos, but then didn't show up. I think it was reused for "another" yacht. I've tried to get weight and also dimensions of keel to use as a starting point, however I've been unsuccessful. Will probably have to start all over - do a float and start loading it up to reach what I suspect is the waterline. At least it will get me in the "ball park".

The boat design is a TURNER, so perhaps someone will know of one in much better shape so I can get some dimensions. Right now, what I have is only a smidgeon better than a piece of 2x4 and if it was a 2x4 at least I could see and mark waterline.

Will let you know if I hear or find out.

Dick
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Denest View Post
That's an interesting bulb shape, sort of laminar flow. What does it weigh?
scaling a very small photo the bulb is about 10" long 2" diameter, applying simpsons rule to a similar laminar flow section shows it would be 14-15 lbs up to a max of 16.

Looking at that hull shape I wouldn't be too concerned about its designed waterline length Dick but run with the apparent trend of loading up to a maximum waterline.

Some of the photos I have seen suggest that effectively overhangs albeit short, hardly noticable ones are back in fashion.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 06:42 AM
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Robert

your estimated weight calculation looks as though it might be 50% (100%) to heavy. generally boats from the mid eighties to present carry about 8lb of lead.

the american designs at that time weighed in about the 10 - 12lb region
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 08:04 AM
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all I have done is scaled a 10" long 20% max chord laminar flow section into a spread sheet and it threw out a range given the inaccuracy of a low res photo

Photo perspective would make a difference if the bulb were only 9" long
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 08:50 AM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
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I was just "guessing" at 6 to 7 lbs. with a keel length of 17 to 19 inches as a starting point.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 11:24 AM
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Mike Denest's Avatar
United States, DE, Newark
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Originally Posted by mark dicks View Post
Robert

your estimated weight calculation looks as though it might be 50% (100%) to heavy. generally boats from the mid eighties to present carry about 8lb of lead.

the american designs at that time weighed in about the 10 - 12lb region
The Toad I am restoring weighed @ 14 lbs. 10 of that is the bulb.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 03:46 PM
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United States, MA, Wenham
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The keel is 17 1/4" when measured from the bottom of the boat to the top of the lead.

The fin itself was similar to the Pinter fin, and may have even been an early version of the pinter fin.

The ballast is 2" by 10" and might be laminar. Who cares, boats of this age are all laminar, so you get your start somewhere then figure out how to make them better.

The Keel and bulb weigh 7lbs 7oz together. Using deduction, the keel should be 7oz (Carbon) and the ballast should be 7lbs.
That is the target weight you should shoot for, but can go up or down from there within reason with good results.

The keel slot is square, so you shouldn't have any trouble putting a fin in there, and having to conform it to it's keel slot. The slot is built right, and goes all the way up to the deck. So inclusive of the part inside the boat, this whole keel is 21.5" long.

Yes, the fin was recycled into "Another" Marblehead as the fin & bulb combo is the ideal target weight for Terry Allen's MAX, which I own the moulds for, and have moved toward making some boats. The 17" draft is also ideal for Redds Pond.

So yes, the hull was free, but the ballast is being recycled.

If you don't have any local draft limitations, why not experiment with a long-fin. Get something nice & deep.

Keep in mind that the weight of the fin will likely increase the longer you go, so decrease your target bulb weight. Proabably only a couple ounces, but stay as close to 7lbs 7oz as you can and you'll be good.


Good luck with the build. Great to see it's started.
Everybody starts somewhere. You've just gotta start, regardless of what others might tell you.

Hell, I threw my first attempt in the dumpster, and if you end up doing the same here, you're out exactly nothin, but would have gained everything in the way of experience.
And that's the only thing that makes a fast boat.

And when somebody tells you it's not competitive, just agree with them and carry on.
After a couple years of being not competitive, that guy's gonna wonder why he can't pass you on the race-course.


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Old Apr 24, 2014, 03:59 PM
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And when somebody tells you it's not competitive, just agree with them and carry on.
After a couple years of being not competitive, that guy's gonna wonder why he can't pass you on the race-course.


Oh, and when that happens, be sure to stick your nose up in the air and tell them that their boats just aren't competitive.
It'll taste good when you do.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 07:20 PM
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Minnesota, USA
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@ Breakwater: Thanks for weight and dimensions. I guess I wasn't too far off with my initial guesstimates of weight and length for keel and bulb.

Building boats in the past I used some shaped "lumber" for a keel - making it a general foil shape and leaving it deeper than normally accepted. At the top of the keel, I left a longer tab sticking up from the keel box and held the keel in place with some "serious" spring clamps. To be safe, I cross drilled the blade and inserted a stainless shackle pin as a safety measure to back up the clamps. This allowed me to sail with an extra deep keel, assess the heeling angles at wind strengths normal for my locale, and when I had the righting moment pretty close to the desired average angle of heel, I simply cut off the top of the keel to appropriate length. The keel was then shaped a bit further for refinement, and again the boat was sailed with a bit more performance. Finally, the keel blade was covered with glass or carbon, and I used the wood core blade for a season or two. While it was slightly heavier, it gave a good feel for a quick-to-make keel and could always become a male plug down the road if I needed to reduce weight.

The "lumber core" usually consisted of a series of redwood, cedar or white pine strips. I laminated at various grain directions and finished with a double coating of WEST resin - before adding the cloth. I never had a keel failure, lamination or warp and any bending (side-to-side) was not sufficient to worry about. This one may have several carbon tubes/rods running the length to aid is stiffness.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 09:29 PM
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United States, MA, Wenham
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Chip, Chip, Chip away.
Eventually it's no longer chipping and you start plowing.

Tonights project-
"Resurrect" a B Rig.

Good luck!
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 07:40 AM
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United States, CT, Essex
Joined Mar 2013
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Hi Dick,

When you say its a TURNER, would that be John?

Think he did a series of designs called Wa Wa's This may be one of them.

SJ
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 07:47 AM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
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I would have to defer that question/suggestion to "Breakwater" - as he rescued the boat from the dumpster,, and offered to me for cost of freight. With that sort of financial investment, I can do a bunch of "workbench modifications" and the cost remains negligible.

I really would love to hear from an owner (or previous owner) to obtain some further historical info on this particular design. Any help with the history is appreciated.
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