Originally Posted by john m taylor

Guys
In my previous thread I mentioned about the possibility of you staging another US (RM) Championship next year. I also said that providing the event was more than a one day regatta, in an open venue I would seriously consider flying over to compete. Browsing at some of the responses I am of the opinion that there seems to be politics surrounding AMYA members / non-members. As im from the UK, I would be classed as a non AMYA member, but my boat would have a valid measuring certificate. Surely if you were to hold an (RM) Championship, as long as a skipper has a valid measuring certificate for his boat, then he could race. Alternatively, you could use the regatta to encourage non-members to join the AMYA. More often these days in the UK we see other skippers coming across Europe to compete in our championships, they are not members but they have a valid measuring certificates for their boats. Despite this if a skipper does not have a certificate for his boat, then the regatta officials could make arrangements to have the boat measured prior to the regatta starting, this would maximise the entry creating a fantastic Championship, therefore encouraging others to join the AMYA.

Additionally, my recommendation for a venue has to be Fort Lauderdale. A good open piece of water with a strong privailing breeze. I appreciate the journey involved for some, but potentially it would mean a 15 hour flight for myself. You never know but you might get a 20 boat entry over a two day regatta, rather than a 8-10 boat entry like you had at San Deigo for just 1 day.

JT
www.taylormadeyachts.com

Let's not put the carriage in front of the horse.
NEED A HOSTING CLUB AND POND!


There is one clerical technicality though...
You can't award a USA National championship to a skipper from abroad.

Sorry, You can't be the Czar of Russia if you are a citizen of Canada. The world doesn't work that way.




Anyone competing for a USA (or ANY country for that matter) National championship, must be a member of that country's hosting organisation. As a citizen of the USA I can't come over to England and become your National champ... Unless I'm a card-carrying member.

My position is, that doesn't mean you're not welcome to sail..
It just means.. same as becoming a member of the Marblehead Model Yacht Club for $10.. if you don't pay your dues, you don't make the scorecard.




The other solution is to have skippers come from abroad.. Make allowances for them to sail, and call it a "WORLD" championship. That's not only an option, but maybe a better option!

Again. same point I've made here.. A M-50/800 is a M 50/800. If your boat measures (and, yes all boats absolutley should be measured at a National level event) it doesn't matter what country and organisation the skipper is from an M is an M and if a R/M nationals is to be held, all boats should be measured.




Again,
Don't put the carriage in-front of the horse.
Who's gonna host this event we have all these ideas and opinions on?

Originally Posted by breakwater

...There is one clerical technicality though...
You can't award a USA National championship to a skipper from abroad.

Sorry, You can't be the Czar of Russia if you are a citizen of Canada. The world doesn't work that way.




Anyone competing for a USA (or ANY country for that matter) National championship, must be a member of that country's hosting organisation. As a citizen of the USA I can't come over to England and become your National champ... Unless I'm a card-carrying member.

My position is, that doesn't mean you're not welcome to sail..
It just means.. same as becoming a member of the Marblehead Model Yacht Club for $10.. if you don't pay your dues, you don't make the scorecard.




The other solution is to have skippers come from abroad.. Make allowances for them to sail, and call it a "WORLD" championship. That's not only an option, but maybe a better option!

Again. same point I've made here.. A M-50/800 is a M 50/800. If your boat measures (and, yes all boats absolutley should be measured at a National level event) it doesn't matter what country and organisation the skipper is from an M is an M and if a R/M nationals is to be held, all boats should be measured.
...

Not sure where this comes from. The AMYA By-Laws follow:

8.3 Participation in National and Regional Regattas.
8.3.1 In National or Regional Championship regattas, each yacht shall be properly registered in its class and all skippers shall be members of the AMYA. (1995)
8.3.2 Non AMYA entries may be accepted providing both Yacht and Skipper are properly registered with their National Authority in that class. (1986)

http://www.theamya.org/about/bylaws.php

The implication being, If you are eligible to compete, you are eligible to win.

The difference between "National" and "World" I would think would have more to do with sanctioning.

Originally Posted by breakwater

There is one clerical technicality though...
You can't award a USA National championship to a skipper from abroad.

Sorry, You can't be the Czar of Russia if you are a citizen of Canada. The world doesn't work that way.

Anyone competing for a USA (or ANY country for that matter) National championship, must be a member of that country's hosting organisation. As a citizen of the USA I can't come over to England and become your National champ... Unless I'm a card-carrying member.

Example 1
Brad Gibson won the US (IOM) Championship 2011.
He is Australian living in the UK at the moment.

Example 2
Zvonko Jelack won the UK (IOM) Championship 2010.
He is Croatian, living in that country.

Example 3
Jon Elmaleh (USA) came to the UK this year for our RM Championship. He had the same chance of winning like everyone else.

Shall I go on..... Some one said previously, dont tell me it CANT happen. Therefore make it happen!!

JT

I think that this forum is not officially sanctioned to speak for the AMYA.

Fair enough!
I wasn't aware that bylaw was in there, and it makes complete and perfect sense, and glad to know it's there. No complaints at all from me.

That was only my opinion.. not a bylaw. Obvouisly the rules over-rule anything I can dream up, and well, that rule makes more sense than I do.

Still, only formalities.
None of it matters if we don't sail.

Originally Posted by john m taylor

Example 1
Brad Gibson won the US (IOM) Championship 2011.
He is Australian living in the UK at the moment.

Example 2
Zvonko Jelack won the UK (IOM) Championship 2010.
He is Croatian, living in that country.

Example 3
Jon Elmaleh (USA) came to the UK this year for our RM Championship. He had the same chance of winning like everyone else.

Shall I go on..... Some one said previously, dont tell me it CANT happen. Therefore make it happen!!

JT

I wasn't aware our bylaws accounted for international entrants in our Nationals... No complaints at all from me now that I know it's there..... and I'm humbly corrected.


I just disagree with the premise of entrants in high-level events without some form of membership.
Why buy the cow, when you can have the milk for free?


Sorry, please don't take it as "you're not welcome" just more so of we're all pitching in to make something happen, everybody's gotta pull their weight.

Need a pond.

Originally Posted by breakwater

I just disagree with the premise of entrants in high-level events without some form of membership..

There is a long standing arrangement of reciprocity for a member 'in good standing' of a class and national association in their own country to be able to participate in the open events of another country. There are many examples of Canada/US cross border events and participation in each other's events.

So if you are a member of your national authority and have a properly registered/measured/certificated boat, you may cross borders and enter events in other countries. You still must comply with event measurement controls as specified in the NOR. The arrangement also allows such a member to charter a local boat in order to compete.

Usually it is not a problem as most regattas can always handle a few more boats. The IOM class sometimes uses country ranking systems to manage entries for 'over-subscribed' events.

John

Originally Posted by hiljoball

There is a long standing arrangement of reciprocity for a member 'in good standing' of a class and national association in their own country to be able to participate in the open events of another country. There are many examples of Canada/US cross border events and participation in each other's events.

So if you are a member of your national authority and have a properly registered/measured/certificated boat, you may cross borders and enter events in other countries. You still must comply with event measurement controls as specified in the NOR. The arrangement also allows such a member to charter a local boat in order to compete.

Usually it is not a problem as most regattas can always handle a few more boats. The IOM class sometimes uses country ranking systems to manage entries for 'over-subscribed' events.

John

Fair enough.
Need a deep enough, open enough, big enough hosting pond for the international guests to put their boats in.

Guys
Below is the link to the World Championships in France that will be starting in a few days. I think Brad Gibson and Graham Bantock will be the favourites to win.

JT

http://www.avrv.asso.fr/

Not a bad entry considering the class is not what it used to be.I would imigane 80% of the entrys are sailing older designs as in the last wave of Scalpels, Bantock paradox etc.Hope we can get some video for the armchair crowd.

I think you will find that the boats have moved on somewhat from your opinion. Try boats like Starkers Cubed, Prime Number, Probably an extended Fraktal that maybe in existance now and Brad Gibsons new boat.

JT

Originally Posted by john m taylor

I think you will find that the boats have moved on somewhat from your opinion. Try boats like Starkers Cubed, Prime Number, Probably an extended Fraktal that maybe in existance now and Brad Gibsons new boat.

JT

I hope you don't mind that I have taken this photo from the website and uploaded it here.

If there are any issues at all, just let me know.

Credit for the Photo is that I found it on this page : http://www.avrv.asso.fr/14_mondial_2012_english.html
All I wanted to do in this post is to upload a photo.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Gents
I have no problem with the picture afterall it shows a bunch of Marbleheads. I see Skalpuls to and im sure some will be there this time around. I was more commenting about the existance of the Paradox. There has been two generations of Marbleheads produced since the Paradox last competed in a World Championship. I very much doubt a Paradox will compete this time around. We will also find out if the Skalpul still has a future at the top of the Marblehead fleet in these championships. Thats only my opinion based on what i saw in this years UK Championship.

JT

I for one would love to hear nothing more than the official, and consistent results that show boats faster than Skapels have been developed.

I don't doubt at all that there has been.



I just know that here, in the USA we think the Skapel is the end of the line on M Class development. There can be none greater.
Not the case.

Progress moves forward.
Unfortunatley the USA is lagging significantly in develpment in this class because of that mentality (and other classes, as others have mentioned in this thread.... Namely the A)




Of course, anyone who doesn't like the "Rocket Science" aspect of the M class, may find interest in one of the other Varieties of M available.

On a recent trip to Nantucket, I happened upon this Marblehead of the Vintage Variety sitting in an window of a downtown shop.


Too bad the store had no clue what it was.. drilled a hole in the bow, added a bowsprit, added some horrible and not-accurate sails. Oh well. Still a good "wall hanger"

The stern still had the remains of what was once a vane-gear boat. Of course the store employee had no idea what Vane Gear even meant, so no need to go down that conversational road.

I'm not sure exactly what it is... although that really doesn't matter.
But It looked to me like a Cheerio I, or possibly a very early Arrow.