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Old Mar 13, 2013, 12:30 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
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Great info and Tips ..where have you been our whole life thanks for taking the time to explain this .im so involved with just flying and doing fiberglass stuff that i just hav'nt tried to learn all this . i raced slot cars as a kid and we were always trying new armatures with different winding to go faster.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 12:49 PM
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United States, PA, Doylestown
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Originally Posted by AIR SALLY View Post
Great info and Tips ..where have you been our whole life thanks for taking the time to explain this .im so involved with just flying and doing fiberglass stuff that i just hav'nt tried to learn all this . i raced slot cars as a kid and we were always trying new armatures with different winding to go faster.
hee, hee, heeee! NUTHIN has changed, either! Great to be a kid, greater to stay one!

And seconding the thanks, ZB! Great to have info that expands our horizons; like Air Sally described, usually we're just so busy doing all that stuff we carry around in our heads, that we don't take the time to investigate some other stuff we kinda know - but don't. Glad you are doing this, as it's very satisfying to add another fascinating element to the whole picture.
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 07:03 AM
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United States, FL, Pompano Beach
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Speaking of fiberglass, excellent work on the nose cone. Very well done, thank you AS. With those tight spots in the nose it takes real skill to get the glass to layout so nicely!!
Although the saying goes "don't kill the messenger" well in this case I'm just relaying what I've learned here on RCG, so I'm just a messenger and don't deserve any credit. I am glad to be of help though.
I've been building airframes for forty years and about a two years ago saw a DIY 3730 (2505 stator) kit from Hobby King, and that started my fascination with motor building. I like the fact I don't need a fork lift to move them around, (yet). It's a unique spot in the world of technology that the hand can beat the machine. As well I don't miss all the liquids involved with wet power. I get to play with that goop on a daily basis.
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 01:23 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
20,809 Posts
me too one drop of jp8 and you smell it all day long ,though i do enjoy the smell of it when its burning.
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 03:09 PM
EDF's Really Blow !!!
United States, KS, Wichita
Joined Mar 2011
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I will admitt that I have not read this entire thread - But I was wondering; regarding the Changesun 10 blade fan, have there been good results using it in this plane? If so, what motor, ESC amp rating, and Lipo pack size have they been using with it? I don't have a lot of take-off space where I fly, I have read that the stock power system is really weak, I really love the sound of the CS 10 blade, and want to use it in this plane if possible. Need a power plant that will get it up in the air quickly. I would really appreciate some advise from you guys who have tried this set-up.
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 03:57 PM
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Opinions.....

We all got 'em, and they're all different.

You can use the CS10 to good advantage here; it will work fine as long as you are aware of what it likes, motor-wise, and what it doesn't. You may even be able to find a combo that will have the plane off the ground in less than 50'.....altho, I don't think that's likely.

Reality is, we all think what we feel. I never found stock power to be "really weak"; the plane flew well on stock power and a 4s battery - it just was certainly not overpowered, and consequently HAD to be flown in a scale manner, with attention to avoiding trouble. Like a real one.

Jets fly on their wings - to a much smaller degree, on their thrust. Without adequate speed, this jet - like any other - will not fly well, if at all. Speed must be the principle part of a good-flying airplane. After that, overpowering the plane can help, but cannot make the plane capable in any and all situations. What it CAN do is help you get out of trouble.....typically caused by going too slow.

The CS10 has a gigantic thread, with a great deal of info gained by experimentation and experience, by several vey capable people. There is no magic bullet combo here - lots depends on your preferences. 4s? 5s? 6s? Inrunner? Outrunner? Spend some time in there - sorry - and see what you can find. This plane will respond well to power changes, but will not respond in a linear manner - huge power will not make it huge fast. A good 800 to 1000 watt combo will push this plane along about as well as anything can. And there are several ways to get there.
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 06:42 PM
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"A good 800 to 1000 watt combo will push this plane along about as well as anything can. And there are several ways to get there"
That's what is being consumed by the motor I wonder what the other end is doing? Thrust is talked about in pounds and electrical consumption in watts. I imagine this stuff is horribly inefficient. I'm sure there is a way to compare apples to apples I just don't know off hand. I wouldn't be surprised if the plane was really flying on 250 watts on the fan side with the stock power system. Just guessing but I get the impression these thing are somewhere around 40 to50 % efficient. In other words I give it a dollar it gives me back 40 or 50 cents worth of work.
Folks commenting on low power may have a weak motor. If one or two strands are broken in a phase the motor will run OK but run hotter than it should the, heat is wasted energy. The motors in this category are very inconsistent.
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 09:27 AM
EDF's Really Blow !!!
United States, KS, Wichita
Joined Mar 2011
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I appreciate the info PikeStaff & Zeroback. Do you know if the stock motor will power the CS10 without burning up? If it can? What amp Speedy do you need for it? I'm also planning to use the Turnigy Nano's - what size do most guys use to balance out CG. I've seen many posts with guys claiming they use 4000mah 4s?
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 09:52 AM
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USA, GA, Atlanta
Joined Nov 2008
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It is tough to fit any larger than the 4000mAh without modifications. Even without tinkering, the 4000 is tough to fit, but doable. I had to remove pneumatics to provide enough room. I need to go ahead and purchase some e-retracts already...
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 01:43 PM
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The stock motor, I think, is a 3000kv unit - really, a bit too high kv for reliable long-term use with the CS10. They are also not rated for lots of power; maybe 40 amps or so (the stock ESC is a 45a. Unit). If it were to be used with the CS10, it's likely that amp draw would be well above that rating, more probably up in the 65 to 80 amp range.....and without superhuman restraint on the throttle, a very short life expectancy to follow.

HobbyKing has cheap (<$15) motors that have shown themselves to work pretty well - identified as the L2855 series motors....if I recall correctly. Lot of comments in the CS10 thread regarding use of the 2300kv and 2800kv motors. Here again, lot of folks running them way over their rated inputs, but apparently they survive it. From what I have been able to read, the CS10 apparently does not require turning above 35,000 or 36,000 to do its' work. This means lower kv motors will be fine, and with 4s batteries, which will fit the airframe better (in larger mAh sizes). You will need another ESC for those motors, too - something above 60a would be a safe bet.
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 02:01 PM
Now, what does this button do?
Nukiwi's Avatar
Christchurch. NZ
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggyBoy View Post
I appreciate the info PikeStaff & Zeroback. Do you know if the stock motor will power the CS10 without burning up? If it can? What amp Speedy do you need for it? I'm also planning to use the Turnigy Nano's - what size do most guys use to balance out CG. I've seen many posts with guys claiming they use 4000mah 4s?
4900 fits with little work.
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 05:16 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
20,809 Posts
those pack are flatter and longer than most ...nice to know. does it cg with out adding weight to the tail.
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 05:53 PM
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United States, FL, Pompano Beach
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If you don't own a watt meter..... It is a real inexpensive piece of gear that can save tons of money. This hardware is consistently inconstant. A quick check before you get airborne when anything is changed in the propulsion system is a wise move from the wallet point of view.. In the case of the 10 blade if you reduce cell count you maybe able to swing it. Having unwound one of these motors 40A is certainly the max. I noticed that the wire used has a thicker coating on it than a typicle airplane motor winding wire and the stators so far have a very thick coating as well. That's probably why they survive as long as they do. We'll soon find out how many amps can be comfortably pumped through some 18 gauge wire. The stock wire equates to around 22.5 AWG. Typical of this type of motor that when the copper area is added up of the 10starnds that make up the conductor it never comes out as an even gauge number, like 28 or 24 AWG.
Good news everybody after some thorough cleaning the bearing tubeless (but not for long) FreeWing stator will probably take 4T of 16 AWG o ooh ahhh. The Preece rating on 16g is a 117A (-10 sec than melts) won't be trying to push anything like that as there is only so much magnet and iron. But it will be a healthy one no doubt. The Preece rating on 22AWG is 41A the rating on 23 is 35A. 40A is pushing the stock wire to the limit
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 06:03 PM
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.....................................?????

OK. WTH is the Preece rating?
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 07:18 PM
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.....................................?????

OK. WHAT is the Preece rating?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...ge#cite_note-8

Scroll down to the middle of the page. Look at the fusing current column, click on the funny looking blue symbol and it will take you to a link which will describe the exact test conditions. In a three phase motor a single phase doesn't see the same amps that is going into the ESC.
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