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Old Feb 09, 2013, 05:43 PM
Registerd Beaver
Smokin' Beaver's Avatar
Australia, WA, Warwick
Joined Jul 2003
3,573 Posts
No problem Flyboy,
I think it will fly, but you may have a limited envelope.
Those props will work too and probably more efficient than the MAS ones I'd guess.
Best thing is to try them.

If you can set up a dummy mounting that you can test thrust with, you will see the results first hand.

With my Guillow's 400 series warbirds, I don't have any with a 1:1 thrust ratio (can sustain a hover) and most are around 75%.
I basically build the whole thing and test it by holding it in my hand vertical, open the throttle and see that it becomes very light in my hands but still sinks as you release your grip.

This will tell you if it can sustain flight above stall. If it drops like a stone you are in trouble.

I tend to stay with my proven packages of 2000 kv to 2500kv motor of around 10 amps ability. A 2 blade APC 7x4SF prop, 18A ESC.

All of my 400 series use this formula and if I can keep them under 10oz I can hit the magic 100 Watts per pound or better.
My Mustang is a porky one but still flies really well, needs to land quickly too though but I've learnt that skill now so am comfortable and actually like it.

One of the practicalities of small models is that unless they are ultra light weight, then scale take-offs and landings are a out the window.
That said, any successful ROG & landing is great fun.

I'd say give it a go and experiment. No one person can say exactly whether it will work as we don't know your skills, some folks can fly a brick but some can't fly a feather.
Warbirds naturally want to fly on their backs and dive into the ground so it's a juggling act from the moment you commit to flight anyway.
Give it a go and see what you get.

Phil
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 06:38 PM
Registerd Beaver
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Australia, WA, Warwick
Joined Jul 2003
3,573 Posts
I've added some pics here of how I did the wings on my P-40 and Fw-190 and Mi-A6M2.

Basically a Clark Y profile s generally considered a good standard for models.
So I've added that template sheet here, print it off on A4 and it will give you a whole raft of templates sizes.
Just make the Guillow's ribs the same profile in any way you like. I have done it a few ways and pics show one of them..

Next, clip off another 3mm from the front of the ribs as this will become the part where you sand in the curve at the bottom of the LE.
If you leave the Guillow's ribs as they are, you will run out of wood trying to sand it to the Clark Y shape.
I usually use soft balsa for LE as they are easy to shape.
Hangar rash is, to me, a furhpy and folks will tell you in must be hard wood ( I disagree).
So a strip of 3mm soft sheet becomes the first 'false' leading edge. make it 1" wide and it sits on its edge all the way along the plan and contacts the LE of the ribs. Beacause it is soft, it's easy to remove scrap later with a knife & sander block.

The rest is just laid out onto the wing skins and glued.
Make sure you add in some washout.
How to do that? get a piece of the 3 mm soft LE sheet material and mark 10" from one end. Cut a triangular piece off it which is 3mm at one end and 0 at the other.
Once the ribs are tacked into place (I only ever use thin CA nowadays as it is quick) This sits under the skin following the aileron spar at the tip, inwards.

make two the same or just re-use this one when you do the next wing.

Set up the ribs and control rod for the aileron (or add a servo if each wing uses a small servo) and you're away.

Add in the washout jig under the aileron spar and glue all the ribs in situ.
I use yellow Aliphatic glue or Gorilla glue for the top skin.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 07:02 PM
Registerd Beaver
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Australia, WA, Warwick
Joined Jul 2003
3,573 Posts
Dihedral - if you are new to low wing monoplanes use the kit dihedral.
Rolls will be less axial but flight stability is good.

For higher performance use 3/4" dihedral at each win tip.


Hope that helps

- Phil
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 09:09 PM
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Joined Jan 2013
14 Posts
Thanks for the posts on the wing build
I am not sure with my motor as you suggested I use a 3 cell battery but the motor I have says max current is 7 volts and all the 3 cells are 11 volts will this burn my motor and ESC out if I do use a 3 cell or do I need to look at getting another motor at 2000-2500 KV with a max voltage of 11v
What gear would you recommend would be the best setup to use
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 07:09 AM
sand it - round?
Vic101's Avatar
Sandton, South Africa
Joined Aug 2003
109 Posts
Fly,
Nice build!
I have found that the critical number is the max current. The voltage determines the speed that the motor runs at but if you run too any amps that will burn out the wiring. So if you keep a close eye on the amps and don't exceed 3,5A continuous, or 6A for 20 seconds you will be fine with a 3s battery. you will need to reduce the size of the prop to keep the current to the required limit.

Your esc is rated 2s to 4s so that should also be fine.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 09:57 AM
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Joined Jan 2013
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Hey Vic
Thanks for the advice from a fellow South African. I am still going to get a different motor as I really don't think I will have the power with all the added weight I am going to have using the retracts and sheeting.
I have a update on my build and will post some more later tonight
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 06:30 PM
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Joined Jan 2013
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Update on my build. I have finished sheeting the fuselage all I need to do now is make the engine mount. I am trying to decide if I should use magnets to hold the battery hatch down or make a hinge on 1 side and just use magnets to hold the other side down, Just not sure how strong they are going to be.
I used humbrol model filler on the joints and sides of the fuselage as when I sheeted it in some spots the wood was bowed in slightly and wanted to make a nice round and good finish on the fuselage. the other nice thing is that it didnt add any weight to the build
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:06 AM
Registerd Beaver
Smokin' Beaver's Avatar
Australia, WA, Warwick
Joined Jul 2003
3,573 Posts
Hi flyboy, sorry for the rt silence - was away for a week with work.

For power and economy of price I use
this motor
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...cro_Motor.html

this ESC
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...rammable_.html

This prop
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...5pcs_bag_.html

This spinner
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...5mm_White.html

This prop adapter (pretty sure I used this one on the P-40)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...mm_shafts.html

This battery ( or similar)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=7308


I have this setup on my Spitfire and it really goes well - sparkling performance.
No need to airflow over the ESC as it is over rated and cannot overheat in the time the 650ma/hr battery lasts (about 5 minutes of 3/4 WOT flying)

I fly a similar setup on my P-40 but only 2S and it really has to be 'flown'. Once it gets up a head of steam it goes well.

Phil
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Old Mar 05, 2013, 06:13 AM
Registered User
Berlin Germany
Joined Nov 2010
33 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin' Beaver View Post
Make sure you add in some washout (...)
.
Hello Mr Beaver
Thank you, this was a very helpfull post, and anwered all questions for wings with "short" ailerons.
However, with full-span ailerons, shouldn't the aileron be twisted too?
and if so, how?

I've dabled over many plans and how-to's, but everyone seem to just ignore the problem.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 09:08 AM
Registerd Beaver
Smokin' Beaver's Avatar
Australia, WA, Warwick
Joined Jul 2003
3,573 Posts
No problems, I'll post a how-to for you tomorrow on how I do it.
I have limited access atm and v slow network speed
Cheers - Phil
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 08:54 PM
Registerd Beaver
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Australia, WA, Warwick
Joined Jul 2003
3,573 Posts
For full length ailerons the same principle applies.

For me I always do balsa skinned wings, open frame is not my thing.
1) The underside wing skin is laid down and root, tip and LE pinned into place
2) The washout jig (a piece of 3mm thick x 300mm long strip is cut 4mm high at one end, going down to 0mm at the 300mm point) is placed along the trailing edge between the skin and the building board and pinned into place.
3) The ribs are laid into place
4) The aileron spar (wing) is laid into place
5) The aileron spar (aileron) is laid into place
6) ensure the lower skin is in contact with all the components (you may need to make additional washout jigs (with reduced angles) to slide in under the skin to do this
7) CA the components into place - now the whole wing and its ailerons are set with the washout into them.
8) install the control rods or servo mounts + hatches etc into the wing
9) run a bead of aliphatic glue across the top of all the ribs and aileron spars and the TE of the lower skin
10) Lay the top skin over the ribs and place a sand bag or two on top of the top skin to provide gravity pressure to keep the skin in contact with ribs, spars etc. Not too heavy or it will sag between ribs.
11) At the TE, ensure the top skin makes contact with the bottom . You can use pins to do this if needed.
12) when dried (next day) cut the ailerons out carefully and they will have the washout built into them. I use floppy disk material for hinges and they just slip in between the top skin and spar of the ailerons. but depending on how they are designed (hinge at the top or middle) will determine how you do that.
13) there you have it, the wing and it's aileron are the same shape. Using wood to skin top and bottom of the wing does away with stringers and spars and all that junk in these small wings. the actual area of the skin and it's glued together, cell forming design is really, really strong. You have to crash hard to snap a wing.

Many of my build threads have this approach in photo progress shots, have a look at them & you can piece together what suits you for your builds.

Cheers - Phil
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 03:30 PM
Registered User
Berlin Germany
Joined Nov 2010
33 Posts
OK!
I always wondered about this practice of building a wing and cutting the aileron afterward, thinking of it as a quick and dirty business compared to the more proper method of building the aileron separate. But today I’ve seen the light !

Thanks
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