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Old Feb 01, 2013, 11:28 PM
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coreman's Avatar
United States, MA, Southbridge
Joined Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post
Makes sense!

I have some 5030 & 6030 GWS 3 blade props I can test with it on 1s (once I get my 1s ESC), since the rpm's are lower than stock wouldn't it be more torquey?
I was going to say, you just go with a bigger prop. See what it can do on a 6x3 or 6x4. Increase the prop until you get to the same amp draw. and yes, the larger prop will be more efficient

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCBABBEL View Post
Pylon racing a streamlined UM bullet with symmetrical wings?

Yes please!!

rc
Why don't you step over here dear sir
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380270
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 11:35 PM
-=BS=-
BlazingStar's Avatar
Thousand Oaks, CA
Joined Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by speedy01 View Post
UNGN,

I hope when all is sorted out that you'll do one of your excellent illustrations that shows and explains the final/best configuration.

Gene K
Amen and yes please!
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 11:43 PM
Master of Micro Modding
valiantGLX's Avatar
Australia, SA, Burra
Joined Sep 2011
2,786 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroCharged View Post
Like I said - a little tinkering with different gear ratio's is next!

I think I have a 2.67:1 and a 3:1 here.
Youd need a different gearbox though, right? Or the perfect combo of larger pinion and smaller spur that fit on the UM propshaft
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 12:12 AM
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Vladimir88's Avatar
Joined Mar 2010
330 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by valiantGLX View Post

The AP05 5000kv seems like the best 1s BL motor around at the moment...
At the moment, there are better motors - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ght=mm+13+4+8t

But a global problem in direct-drive motors - is a high current consumption or low energyefficiency.
Brushless motors with gearbox solve this problem.

Unfortunately new brushless motor BLH3904 has a low speed and decrease rate reduction of gear will not solve this problem because it this reduce the energyefficiency.
My forecast- this motor with gearbox (when powered 1S) to develop thrust about 40 grams.

The possibilities of the new motor can be predicted from the information in this topic-
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1360585
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...xperiment+1015
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Last edited by Vladimir88; Feb 02, 2013 at 07:10 AM.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 01:09 AM
Heli's rule!
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Midvale, Utah, USA
Joined Mar 2005
9,323 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroCharged View Post
Anyhoo, here endeth all speculation.

The inrunner will spin a UM prop in a UM gearbox on 1S at ~5200rpm's.
The stock motor spins a UM prop in a UM gearbox on 1S at ~6900 rpm's.

The inrunner draws much less current on 1S (less load thanks to lower kV)

Having said that - Sweet mercy! she had some thrust on 2S! I didn't dare go full throttle.

We may have to work on different ratio gearboxes. I think I still have some old different ratio gearbox combo's from back in the day - I can't remember the name of them though - they came with folding props.
well if the motor is not loaded with a 5x3, try a higher pitch prop. Should be able to get nearly the same RPM, but with a higher pitch speed to make up for the lower RPM.
try a 5x4.3
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:50 AM
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Joined Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroCharged View Post
Like I said - a little tinkering with different gear ratio's is next!

I think I have a 2.67:1 and a 3:1 here.
Some calculation for 1S:

Code:
Volt    kV    Gear   Slip    rpm   Thrust(5030)
3,7V * 8100kv  / 4  - 30% =  5200 = 25g

3,7V * 13000kv / 4  - 30% =  8400 = 65g
3,7V * 8100kv  / 3  - 30% =  7000 = 44g
3,7V * 8100kv /2,67 - 30% =  7800 = 55g
Other props are also worth to try and 2S with limited Throttle Curve seems possible but need some tests.(current, temp, cooling)
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 09:21 AM
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USA, WA, Bremerton
Joined Mar 2009
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Vladimir88 is probably right! This motor does not have the Kv or sufficient rpm to be of any use over the stock motor. The gear boxes he has been building over the past several years are the best way to get this kind of power over the stock coreless motor other than going with the very expensive but worth it Mighty Midget motors. I think this is why HH originally went with the 8.4mm brushed motor in the first place. It was and still is the best choice for these planes without adding the weight of bl esc and larger batteries. (at least for the time being) I wanted to use the motor for 1s micro edf's myself but may just go to the higher kv Gp motor it's rated over 11000kv!
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 09:46 AM
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United States, MA, Southbridge
Joined Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTCAKE View Post
Vladimir88 is probably right! This motor does not have the Kv or sufficient rpm to be of any use over the stock motor. The gear boxes he has been building over the past several years are the best way to get this kind of power over the stock coreless motor other than going with the very expensive but worth it Mighty Midget motors. I think this is why HH originally went with the 8.4mm brushed motor in the first place. It was and still is the best choice for these planes without adding the weight of bl esc and larger batteries. (at least for the time being) I wanted to use the motor for 1s micro edf's myself but may just go to the higher kv Gp motor it's rated over 11000kv!
I'm not giving up just yet. I think larger props will help. When I reduce my flat foamie 3D planes from 3S to 2S I often have to enlarge the prop. I think the key here was the previous comment that the amp draw was significantly less. I will play with that here too. My motors will be here thursday so I should have time next weekend
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 10:07 AM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
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Hmmmm, I think it's time for HH to design a 8.4mm brushless with a bit more Kv (and ideally, a 1S AS3X receiver with brushless output/FET onboard). They seem to be great at designing new motors, and they have no problems having many versions of AR6400 boards... For now, having to change gear ratio may be the solution, but sure enough, being able to simply replace the motor in our old gearbox would be better...
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 10:16 AM
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USA, WA, Bremerton
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No don't give up! Vadimir88's gear boxes are great, but most of us will not invest the time to copy what he's done. I know I'm not gonna build one anytime soon. I'm just too lazy. This would be a better alternative (building wise) for most of us if the kv/rpm's were higher. Even a slight increase over stock would be good if the weight was lighter. But I understand from the Solo pro/Bravo SX thread that the Bravo SX gives a 25% increase over stock motors. Some have reported up to 60grams thrust on their 8.4mm Bravo SX motors (Brushed!!!) . This is a direct drop in with only a pinion change. That's pretty good.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 12:26 PM
miataman
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Erie Pa.
Joined Oct 2007
685 Posts
Have any of you actually tried the APO5 5000kv motors?? I have and Im saying they would have too much thrust for any of the brushed PZ planes. You would fold the wings at wot. I compared my original Beast motor with the apo5 5000kv.
The beast on 2 cell 180 batt = 72g Thrust
The APO5 on 1cell 300 batt = 71g Thrust.

Tested by hanging plane on 2 strings and measuring with a gram guage.
Plane is actually trying to fly but gauge is stopping it.

This motor combination on a 40 gram 300 extra scratchbuilt wont only hover it will accelerate up out of the hover. Guys at my indoor are impressed with this one cell power.
This is not a 3000kv APO5 that has been tested many times before.
Take the 3000 and rewire for Delta and then try it. If you are not impressed then you need to go to bigger planes and motors.

JCS
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 12:55 PM
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
12,468 Posts
Does anyone know the approximate wattage of the mCPX bl tail motor? If not, could it be determined empirically by incrementally increasing the load at a constant input voltage, while monitoring motor temp, current, and RPM, and then looking for a sudden shift in the slope of the temperature vs input power or RPM vs input power curves?

Joel
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 12:59 PM
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Gulf Breeze, FL
Joined Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miatamama View Post
Take the 3000 and rewire for Delta ....
What should the above mean to a non-tech builder/flyer like me?

Appreciate your comments on the APO5.

Gene K
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 01:13 PM
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I R Irv's Avatar
United States, IL, Washington
Joined Nov 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy01 View Post
What should the above mean to a non-tech builder/flyer like me?

Appreciate your comments on the APO5.

Gene K
You have to change how the wires are terminated. It will turn your 3000kv motor into a 5100kv motor. If your not a rewinder I wouldn't suggest it.
TODD
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 04:02 PM
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United States, TN, Jackson
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microheli View Post
2S with limited Throttle Curve seems possible but need some tests.(current, temp, cooling)
Fellas---DON'T GIVE UP YET!!!!.......This is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!!...Think about this----Limit the endpoint on the throttle so that you get about 8000 rpm at full throttle on 2S...This would be a tad more than 1000 rpm over the stock brushed motor...I would think that the stock gearbox should be able to handle the extra 1000rpm...Also, the heat would be lower...This would give you more power than a Bravo motor but not so insane as to break or melt the gearbox...

Since you have some head room with the throttle---Now, how about this thrown in for grins and giggles...Do a throttle to throttle mix...Program the throttle endpoint in the mix so that you gain about 200rpm over the set endpoint that you already have...Assign the mix to the trainer switch button/lever...When you hit the trainer switch you go into "Military Power" for a very brief burst of extra power!!!...Since the mix is on the trainer switch, when you release the switch the motor immediately goes back to normal...

Howz that for a little get go to your giddyup!!!......

Kevin
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