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Old Mar 31, 2014, 01:24 PM
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United States, TX, Lubbock
Joined Oct 2007
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So I now have 9 teeth wound, and the wire ends at the top of the motor the starting to look like a troll doll.
When it's finished, I'll have 24 wire ends that somehow need to come together into a running motor.

I think a YYYY termination will get me the KV I'm looking for.

Would the termination go like this?...

Bundle 1
A1 end
B1 end
C1 end

Bundle 2
A2 end
B2 end
C2 end

Bundle 3
A3 end
B3 end
C3 end

Bundle 4
A4 end
B4 end
C4 end

If I understand correctly, a YY motor is wired like two 6n motors.
So a YYYY would be terminated like four 3n motors. Is that right?
If that's the case, the individual 3n motors are a group of 3 teeth all right next to each other.

If someone has a grasp on this termination, I'd appreciate the input
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Old Mar 31, 2014, 01:42 PM
Which one is aileron again?
USA, VA, Blacksburg
Joined Apr 2006
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Sounds about right to me...

I believe you could just bundle ALL the bundles together if you wanted but I could be wrong about that and it would probably make for a real mess inside the bell.
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Old Apr 01, 2014, 10:44 AM
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Speaking of terminations, what type of solder is useful for both conductivity and temperature resistance.
I know that 10% silver or above is too high heat to solder with a normal iron.
Is 2% silver bearing solder a good option?
I also have some Stay-Brite silver solder and matching flux which has a lower melting point of 430F. I think standard 60/40 solder has a 370F melting point.

Is this high enough to keep the motor safe?
Is there an option that is still workable, but has a higher melting point?
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Old Apr 01, 2014, 10:51 AM
Which one is aileron again?
USA, VA, Blacksburg
Joined Apr 2006
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Any lead free solder will have a much higher melting point than 60/40. Unfortunately, they all flow very poorly as well... You *could* braze it with pure silver...
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Old Apr 01, 2014, 01:48 PM
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United States, TX, Lubbock
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Proto,
I hadn't thought of the lead free. I'll get some and try it on some scrap wire. If I can't get it to flow well enough, I'll go with normal 60/40 or maybe silver bearing electrical solder.
If any part of the motor gets over 400F, something's already gone very wrong.
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Old Apr 01, 2014, 01:50 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
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The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
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Resistance of a soldering joint is veryvery very negligable. Just use what you have at hand in your shop.

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 11:42 PM
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Hey I got another working motor!!!

Got the terminations worked out for ABC - YYYY.
A solder point joining the ends of each group of three teeth. Then the four starts of each phase are joined together for ESC leads.

I left the Y connections very long for no-load testing, and they're hanging out the motor base with the ESC wires.
Only stuffed the motor far enough together to get the bell fully engaged and turning around the stator.

Plugged it up and got pretty beeps from the Castle. That's always a relief, as I figure if I screwed something up too bad, the beeps won't sound quite right (moans of pain??)

A test blip on the throttle spun it up smoothly, so I ran it up to full power on 3S. Ran for about 10 seconds and quickly pulled the bell off to see if any windings were hotter than others. Everything felt cool.
Cool!!

Next was the KV test. Moment of truth.
Came out at 1228kv. No freakin way!!
That's exactly what I was shooting for. And shooting a little blind, working on the assumption that it would be as simple as YYYY quadrupling the KV of a Y motor.

All up, I call this one a smashing success.

I'll neaten up the terminations to make them nice and compact, then glue down any floppy bits and put a partial coat of epoxy on the windings. The outside turns are pretty close to the edge, so want to get them locked down.

Time soon to make some noise with prop testing!
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Old Apr 03, 2014, 07:07 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Sounds like you have winner for sure.

Do you know yet, what prop and how many cells do you think you will fly that motor with?

Jack
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Old Apr 03, 2014, 07:34 AM
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It'll go on my Ninja Speed F3S plane.
The best props to use on it would be something like an 8x17 or 10x22 folder at 20K RPM.
So that would mean 6S on this 1228kv motor.
But I don't have access to a big pitch prop right now, so I'm stuck cutting down the 7x10 and 8x10.
I'll need to whip those up above 30K to get the pitch speed to put the plane over 230mph.
That means solid 9S on this motor.
I'll start with 8S, as is my tried and true practice, just to make sure everything's happy
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Old Apr 03, 2014, 07:46 AM
Jack
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Joined May 2008
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Sounds like it will be a real screamer. But the experimenting to sort out the details and option is always fun too.

Those speed planes are all hand launched I think, the hardest part of the testing may be to find a testing assistant that has the strength and arm speed to get that plane anywhere near the speed where it can fly with those grossly over square props. As I understand them, they really don't start becoming very efficient or generating much thrust until the speed has picked up quite a bit. It could all make getting a plane actually flying hard...

Jack
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Old Apr 03, 2014, 10:17 AM
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Yes the props are very stalled until the airspeed gets up to 50+mph or so. They're definitely not rockets leaving the launcher.
F3S rules require a hand launch. Previous flights in the plane have been with a 220g motor. On 7S 4400 it hand launches pretty well with a buddy's help. Just kind of lumber into the air without dropping.
This motor adds another half pound to the 5lb plane, and 9S 3300 is the same weight battery.
So I expect launching will still be pretty docile.
I do have a good bungee setup, too, if things get nasty
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Old Apr 03, 2014, 11:42 AM
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Joined Feb 2010
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With F3S speed planes you have so much power to weight, that even with a stalled prop the launch will be easy! All of them launch at ~50% throttle to let the prop bite sooner.
They accellerate vertically up with half throttle.

René

Murdo congrats with your first home build speed motor!
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Old Apr 03, 2014, 12:03 PM
"The Judge"
sebbe's Avatar
Sweden
Joined Feb 2006
5,817 Posts
murdnunoc , very NICE

Why dont you make something like this... I think a thickness of 1mm would be ok.. material? glasfiber sheet maybee..

Slide it in between stator and wire when winding, make the point round and smooth, also make the top cornes smooth and round, after you have done winding, just slide it out... this way you will be sure there is a small gap on top.
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Old Apr 03, 2014, 12:54 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murdnunoc View Post
Yes the props are very stalled until the airspeed gets up to 50+mph or so. They're definitely not rockets leaving the launcher.
F3S rules require a hand launch. Previous flights in the plane have been with a 220g motor. On 7S 4400 it hand launches pretty well with a buddy's help. Just kind of lumber into the air without dropping.
This motor adds another half pound to the 5lb plane, and 9S 3300 is the same weight battery.
So I expect launching will still be pretty docile.
I do have a good bungee setup, too, if things get nasty
Ah, bungie cord launches, that would really help I'll bet.

Thanks for the other details too guys. But I can F3B is a younger guys game, it would not work at Geezerville Aerodrome.

I really need to go to a RC meet and see some of this stuff in action...

Jack
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Old Apr 06, 2014, 11:30 PM
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Joined Oct 2007
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Tying it up

I'm moving the motor from its initial "does it run??" test to a workable motor.
Untied the Y connections that were left long for testing, and shortened them up so they're compact.
Soldered up and insulated them. Now just have to bend them down so they fit the stator mount.

Next step will be routing the 3 ESC leads of 4-wire bundles into a single exit point.
If all 12 wires end up being too big to exit a single hole in the stator mount, I'll split it into 2 leads out of one hole, and 1 lead out another hole.
Planning to keep the ESC leads VERY short, as they're ultra stiff.
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