Originally Posted by hoghead5150

"The government cannot force you to follow laws that go against your fundamental religious belief."

wow, so if my fundamental religious belief is human sacrifice, that shouldn't be against the law!!

come on now, what gives an employer the rights to force their religious beliefs on their employees?

You're right, killing unborn babies is a lot like human sacrifice. Only it's to the god of convenience or laziness, the majority of the time.

Originally Posted by hoghead5150

come on now, what gives an employer the rights to force their religious beliefs on their employees?

This is IMO the salient point, why should a company be allowed to make decisions regarding the health care their employees receive? No one is forcing any of the employees of this company to actually use these services if they dont want to.

The fact that the company owner sticks to a fairly hard line interpretation of religious doctrine (many Christians have no problem with abortions, let alone contraception) does not give them the right to enforce their views upon others.

Seems people here also need to learn the difference between an abortion and a contraceptive measure. The morning after pill prevents a fertilised egg implanting in the uterus and thus from becoming an actual pregnancy. This happens naturally in a large percentage of cases without anyone knowing so can hardly be considered human sacrifice.

But to be perfectly honest I dont really understand why health insurance is part of your job. Here we pay for our own, short cuts a lot of this sort of rubbish.

Originally Posted by hoghead5150

"The government cannot force you to follow laws that go against your fundamental religious belief."

wow, so if my fundamental religious belief is human sacrifice, that shouldn't be against the law!!

come on now, what gives an employer the rights to force their religious beliefs on their employees?

He's Not.......

No, it's not people not understanding. Conception takes place(aka fertilized egg), if something like plan b keeps it from attaching, it dies. So if fertilization does occur, then technically the morning after pill does cause an abortion.

Originally Posted by desertstalker

This is IMO the salient point, why should a company be allowed to make decisions regarding the health care their employees receive? No one is forcing any of the employees of this company to actually use these services if they dont want to.

The fact that the company owner sticks to a fairly hard line interpretation of religious doctrine (many Christians have no problem with abortions, let alone contraception) does not give them the right to enforce their views upon others.

Seems people here also need to learn the difference between an abortion and a contraceptive measure. The morning after pill prevents a fertilised egg implanting in the uterus and thus from becoming an actual pregnancy. This happens naturally in a large percentage of cases without anyone knowing so can hardly be considered human sacrifice.

But to be perfectly honest I dont really understand why health insurance is part of your job. Here we pay for our own, short cuts a lot of this sort of rubbish.

If fertilization of the egg is your benchmark for personhood then all in-vitro therapy is mass murder since they impregnate multiple eggs and discard all of them except for one.

Hobby Lobby isn't being forced to provide birth control drugs directly to their employees, no matter how much they insist they are. They aren't providing them any more then they are providing their employees with health care or drugs. The doctors and pharmacies are. That they feel an employee's health insurance comes directly from them is ludicrous. It comes from the employee's labor, period. It's a part of the employee's salary, and they shouldn't have any more say in how they receive that health care than they do in what the rest of the employee's salary.

If the owners of Hobby Lobby were true Christians, and chose not to judge as Jesus instructed, they would allow the employee to take the money intended for the heath insurance premium and allow the employee to purchase their own plan. That way they would be just as insulated from the choice of health insurance as they are from the rest of the employee's salary.

Originally Posted by thunder1

Hobby Lobby isn't being forced to provide birth control drugs directly to their employees, no matter how much they insist they are. They aren't providing them any more then they are providing their employees with health care or drugs. The doctors and pharmacies are. That they feel an employee's health insurance comes directly from them is ludicrous. It comes from the employee's labor, period. It's a part of the employee's salary, and they shouldn't have any more say in how they receive that health care than they do in what the rest of the employee's salary.

If the owners of Hobby Lobby were true Christians, and chose not to judge as Jesus instructed, they would allow the employee to take the money intended for the heath insurance premium and allow the employee to purchase their own plan. That way they would be just as insulated from the choice of health insurance as they are from the rest of the employee's salary.

Non-christians and especially non-cathloics wouldn't understand. If your releigon is aginst any form of birth control, then it's aginst you paying for it for somebody else. Employees do have rights. They have the rights to find a better job somewhere else who does provide the things they want. When someone goes to work for somone like Hobby Lobby, they reach an agreement wih that employer as to what they are paid and what their benefits are. If they don't like it, they are free to move on! Nobody is forced to work for them. Ther are things like flex-spending accounts where they could use to cover any RX's that are not covered by insurance. Birth control pills are about $108.00 for a year supply. If you cant afford that, your really not responsible enough to have the fun you would need it for!!!!!

Originally Posted by Thomas B

Time for this thread to be moved to Life, the Universe and Politics discussion area......

Why?

The topic has to do with government policies, this IS EXACTLY where that stuff goes.

The Bibelgod has commanded his followers to kill people and rape their young daughters. Bibelgod also says I can keep them as my slaves. Any law preventing me from doing so is a violation of my religious rights! Anyone who does not agree with me is a Communist Atheist Muslim Terrorist and it is all Obama's fault!

You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

The entire concept of universal health care is bogus. Consider this---there are hundreds of companies exempt from this law (covering over 250,000 people) as are 535 senators and representatives as well as the entire executive and judicial branch of the government and their immediate families.
On the other hand religous groups who have specific beliefs will be forced to purchase insurance or face a fine. i.e. Seventh Day Adventists.
Then there is the criminal element such as gang members and such who will in all probability ignore the directive to become insured but will expect the best of care after the drive bys.
This law is a sham.
Obama pushed universal health care on the American People against the will of the majority yet finds it convenient to excude thousands from complying including him and his family.
Before you start throwing grenades at this post I have paid for my health care for over forty years which has virtually doubled in cost since this "cost reducing law" was passed.

BM

Originally Posted by BillM

The entire concept of universal health care is bogus. Consider this---there are hundreds of companies exempt from this law (covering over 250,000 people) as are 535 senators and representatives as well as the entire executive and judicial branch of the government.
On the other hand religous groups who have specific beliefs will be forced to purchase insurance or face a fine. i.e. Seventh Day Adventists.
Then there is the criminal element such as gang members and such who will in all probability ignore the directive to become insured but will expect the best of care after the drive bys.
This law is a sham.

BM

I wholeheartedly agree!!!

Originally Posted by desertstalker

This is IMO the salient point, why should a company be allowed to make decisions regarding the health care their employees receive? No one is forcing any of the employees of this company to actually use these services if they dont want to.

The fact that the company owner sticks to a fairly hard line interpretation of religious doctrine (many Christians have no problem with abortions, let alone contraception) does not give them the right to enforce their views upon others.

Seems people here also need to learn the difference between an abortion and a contraceptive measure. The morning after pill prevents a fertilised egg implanting in the uterus and thus from becoming an actual pregnancy. This happens naturally in a large percentage of cases without anyone knowing so can hardly be considered human sacrifice.

But to be perfectly honest I dont really understand why health insurance is part of your job. Here we pay for our own, short cuts a lot of this sort of rubbish.

The problem is that employers are expected to provide health insurance at all. That problem is made worse when that insurance is forced to cover things that aren't essential for one's health. Whether it is birth control for contraceptive purposes or Viagra or whatever else.

Many in this country seem to fail to grasp that freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. If you want to do what you want then you have to be responsible for it. There seems to be a group of people that see things like health care as a right. Health care doesn't exist in a vacuum. People have to spend years training to be able to provide it. How do you have the right to someone else's labor? If your employer or your government are providing those things for you how in the world do you expect them not to have a say in it? Those who seek to have the government control health care are willing to allow people to believe that they will get all they want at this point. What happens when there isn't enough money or they can't force enough people to be doctors when they try to cut their pay to stretch the healthcare dollars?

Think about freedom in general. I don't care if my neighbor is a fat slob who won't take care of himself if he is responsible for the consequences of that. What happens when all his neighbors have to pay his bills? What recourse do they have to him driving up their costs? Suddenly when things become a collective right we have more collective concerns. Freedom begins to erode. Only if people are responsible for themselves can they truly be free.