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Old Aug 26, 2015, 11:43 AM
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here is the thread I ran on putting the flaps in my buddies p-51d just like yours.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-w...flaps-arf.html

both were in the 8.5 to 9# range.

I would highly recommend cutting the battery hatch in the top of the fuse. mine had dedicated batteries and a charging harness that I tucked unto the wheel wells when flying.

the power 60 will fly it very nicely! same speeds (different prop) but in my case the runway is cut for the retirees in the club so by the time I get there it has 3 days growth on it and usually 4-5 inches deep. so the power-60 usually gave me touch and go takeoffs at best.

I had the power-60 on 6s setup in a h9 spit at the same wt and it flew all the maneuvers just fine. just climbing out of the grass with flying speed was the issue. when we dog fight it would loss energy fast and my son knew all he had to do was get me dancing and I could not keep up.

Joe
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Old Aug 26, 2015, 06:50 PM
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I think you would be happier with a Power 90 on 8S. You will have to add ballast with a Power 60, but it will have scale thrust. Maybe a sound system up front instead of lead.
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Old Aug 27, 2015, 01:54 AM
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I couldn't leave all the fun to you guys. I had to re-kit my P-51 as well. OK... its not that bad. I broke the nose off and gave it lots of bumps and bruises. My thumb just couldn't keep up with the P-factor and torque on take-off.

I'm running an E-flite 110 with a 18 x 10E APC.

My thoughts are now, since I have to glue the nose back on, should I add more right thrust angle to the motor mount to compensate for all the P-factor? What do you guys think?

I don't want to add much. But I'm thinking I can build it into the frame so that when I mount the cowling back on it will align better with the propeller cone.

The damage is actually all busted glue joints and I wont have any problem getting it back to straight. (or slightly to the right if I want) While inspecting the damage, I noticed just the factory glued joints separated and very little balsa actually ripped into pieces. Even the parts that I re-enforced with my own CA held together. I bent the landing gear some and the joints I re-enforced in the wings held up great.

I'm wondering about the joints I cant see inside and I cant get to and wondering if they are all popped too....

At least I got some flights on it before I toasted it. But I've always had problems with it wanting to turn left on take-off. I just didn't keep up this time and went off the runway. So I want to do something if I can to make it a little easier on me on take-off.
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Old Aug 27, 2015, 07:49 AM
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first switch to a 16x10, the draw will go down, flight length will go up and vertical will improve; if it needed improvement. left pull will be less

as for right thrust, I leave it as is. once everything is glued back in place put a coat of .75 oz glass over the firewall and box, inside and out then add supports, or a second layer of glass in the corners.

handling P-factor try this:
-hold the R and the E at presets (I have people add 5 clicks of up E on a trimmed plane) but you still have to hold the rudder about half way over to the right.
- start your takeoff role the plane will turn to the right so I cock it to the left about twenty degrees. bring the throttle up fast enough to keep the plane straight while never moving the rudder.

things you should notice are you have to bring the throttle up much slower than you have been and the plane will rotate on its own at 50-65% throttle. once in the air you can add the rest of the throttle quickly but smoothly, if you advance the T to fast while airborne the plane will bank left a little 15-20 degrees.

Joe
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Old Aug 27, 2015, 11:04 PM
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Thanks for your input Paladin. I was already thinking about going with a shorter prop because of all the benefits you described. You've talked me into it. FG around the firewall and box are already in the repair plans. I have all the confidence in my CA because it held everything else I used it on so well but FG would seal the deal and I wont ever have to worry about that part again.

After I wrote my question above, I remembered, I was planning on putting the tail gear doors on after I got things adjusted straight with the gear itself. That never happened. Duh! moment on my part... They probably would have helped counter the corkscrew effect against the tail fin since they are on the bottom of the fuse. Sometimes my hindsight is better than my foresight. Another thing I'm considering is setting up a flight mode trimmed for take-off and once I'm up in the air, flip the switch to regular trim.

One thing you say is "hold the rudder right", "then hold left"? Not sure I understand. I was trying to correct for the left turn then straighten the rudder and I found myself continually adjusting left, right, left, right. NOT fun...

I was already bringing the throttle up slow but maybe I need to be even slower. Gonna have to find a longer runway for that too... The runway I'm at is about 200ft. Maybe even more...

My main concern is the thought of adding right thrust and maybe even some down. OR Just keep it as is if I can find a better way to compensate for all that left turn tendency. I've noticed its most evil just as the tail lifts off. (rapid change in angle of attack at the prop during rotation) Its always been a handful on the runway. I just wasn't as lucky this time. I would rather it fly straight in the air and learn better how to get it off the ground. Any ideas that help me in that area are much appreciated.
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Old Aug 28, 2015, 08:12 AM
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Do not add right thrust beyond the stock angle!!!

On ground handling, the torque will be different than during flight. This is because of the forces due to gyroscopic procession are 90 degrees. This is why the plane needs right rudder on TO only when in contact with the ground. This goes away in flight.
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Old Aug 28, 2015, 09:13 AM
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-taxi out to take off position.
-turn the plane so it is 20 degrees left of runway centerline
-add 5 clicks of up E trim, hold rudder half over to the right and hold it there
-when you start adding throttle the plane will turn right because of the rudder you are holding.
-as speed builds up it will straighten out after that point if you add to much throttle it will go left don't correct with rudder just hold the T and wait for the speed to correct. if you give to little T it will start to go right

getting into the air is not a requirement here. this exercise is to teach you how little is actually required to keep it straight without braking the plane.

most important " insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results."


ca is wonderful stuff! but it is only as strong as the material it is holding. ply is a thin layer of wood bonded to a thin layer of wood and I guarantee the glue in the lt ply is junk. so to make that tougher we need to increase the amount of area involved in the bond, that's what the glass is for. it also is stronger than the material we are bonding which means it can carry the load and the wood just gives it form.

u need to learn to takeoff before you consider changing the plane. my son has spent the summer replacing E and A servos because they just don't center well anymore. I gave him a set of coreless servos and they solved the problem on one plane. and I talked to him about the plane had not changed he had. he spent easily 100 bucks replacing all his cheepo servos with the same stuff and it fixed the problem for 3-6 flights (the honeymoon) then it was back. last week he bought his first set of good digital servos and is flying them now. I bet it solves the problem. you are at the same place, don't make changes you don't understand the consequences of.

Joe
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Old Aug 28, 2015, 10:37 PM
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Laugh!
That was cool.
Missing mine even more now.....
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Old Aug 29, 2015, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paladin-34 View Post
-taxi out to take off position.
-turn the plane so it is 20 left of runway centerline
-add 5 clicks of up E trim, hold rudder half over to the right and hold it there
-when you start adding throttle the plane will turn right because of the rudder you are holding.
-as speed builds up it will straighten out after that point if you add to much throttle it will go left don't correct with rudder just hold the T and wait for the speed to correct. if you give to little T it will start to go right

getting into the air is not a requirement here. this exercise is to teach you how little is actually required to keep it straight without braking the plane.

most important " insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results."


ca is wonderful stuff! but it is only as strong as the material it is holding. ply is a thin layer of wood bonded to a thin layer of wood and I guarantee the glue in the lt ply is junk. so to make that tougher we need to increase the amount of area involved in the bond, that's what the glass is for. it also is stronger than the material we are bonding which means it can carry the load and the wood just gives it form.

Joe
Joe, Thank you for the step by step on the take-off. It didn't really make sense to me the first time I read your first post. Now it makes better sense and it parallels what others have told me or I've read about how to take off. Now I need to turn that into actual practice. I will learn this! Or fix it again... geez What I was doing before obviously wasn't working. I'm not one to keep doing something and wonder why it never gets any better. I don't let pride get in the way either. That's why I ask questions AND listen to the answers. and ask again if its not clear the first time around.

When you say "-turn the plane so it is 20 left of runway centerline" do you mean centered but 20 degrees left?

Thanks again for all the advice. Yesterday, I already decided NOT to build any right thrust into the nose. I glued it on today. (After reading everybody's replies just now, seems I decided correctly) FG is coming too once I get some time tomorrow. I'd rather it fly straight more than make it easier on my self on take-off.
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Old Today, 10:59 AM
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you want to be on runway centerline. then cant the plane 20 degrees left. this is because when you hold the rudder from the start it will turn right for the first 3 or 4 feet of roll out. when it straightens out you will be headed slightly to the right.




Joe
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