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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:11 AM
Don't take any wooden nickels
finguz's Avatar
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I just can't afford to keep buying helicopters just for that cause.
I know but getting new stuff feels so good!

+1 On the 700 Tarot, though I'm not ready for a 700. If so, I wonder how much it would cost. Once again I'd have a little clone-phobia, a lot with a 700 maybe. I don't want to feel like I wasted money again.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:16 AM
Don't take any wooden nickels
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Originally Posted by Hajile View Post
Like i said in another thread, it's like preaching the merits of a brand of caviar to a bunch rednecks. He'd have gotten shot just to get him to stop spouting gibberish. Since they haven't invented a way to do that across the internet yet, they just took turns poking at him with a stick to watch him squeal. The rest of us watched the entertainment.

That last part is what's called 'having a way with words'. Very illustated
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Hajile View Post
Like i said in another thread, it's like preaching the merits of a brand of caviar to a bunch rednecks. He'd have gotten shot just to get him to stop spouting gibberish. Since they haven't invented a way to do that across the internet yet, they just took turns poking at him with a stick to watch him squeal. The rest of us watched the entertainment.

I don't think it was as simple as that. It is more like attention seeking. He started off just wanting to bash Walkera. When the reaction wasn't as big as he thought, he then went on to bash other brands such as Blade, Align and clones. Finally, he went onto personal attacks.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finguz View Post
I know but getting new stuff feels so good!

+1 On the 700 Tarot, though I'm not ready for a 700. If so, I wonder how much it would cost. Once again I'd have a little clone-phobia, a lot with a 700 maybe. I don't want to feel like I wasted money again.
You see, the reason i would want to buy a Tarot now is for YOUR benefit. Not mine. Especially since so many people have been burned by some cheap brand or the other. I just want to review the things honestly, with no white wash or vested interest. Most reviews end up being this whole "this product is great" video no matter what they really think. Like the Xheli videos. It's almost like in these reviews and videos, they are scared to say what everyone will eventually discover on their own anyway. If a product is good, it's just good. If it's bad. Well, it's just bad. There really isn't any middle ground in this hobby. You can have a good airframe with crappy electronics (walkera) and stay in business. But why is it every review of their products reads like a script right from Walkera? The thing about Walkera is.... No one would DARE send me a Walkera heli for an honest review. If anyone at all was listening they would never sell the damn thing. But i would be as honest as i possible can while doing a legit review. The sad truth is for a lot of helicopter companies, just like governments. Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:37 AM
Don't take any wooden nickels
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IntegrityHndywrk: For sure.

I wouldn't mind them send me one for your guys' benefit
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by finguz View Post
IntegrityHndywrk: For sure.

I wouldn't mind them send me one for your guys' benefit
Lol, again. I don't want to keep them either. Well, maybe just the ones i REALLY like. I could never keep up with that kind of maintenance. My current 5 helicopters that i fly regularly keep me well enough in the hole in that aspect

I would be perfectly happy sending them back to the distributor and also paying any repairs so they could resell it. But again. I wouldn't pull any punches and that could go either way for the distributor or manufacturer. NOW if someone happens to think/ know they make a superior product. That is the guy who would have no fear sending me a heli for review. Because they know that i might point out the flaws, but i would also point out the value. So, is there any point in someone reviewing something like a SAB Goblin? I think so. With all the hype, sure it's a great heli. But someone should be out there saying it's also not perfect. None of these "toys" are. The thing about doing reviews in such a way. After so long you actually have experience with every brand and can start to be able to contrast the pro's of one heli to the con's of another and compare the issues and likenesses of different brands. In the end constructive criticism should only make the manufacturer better. At least thats the way I'm looking at it. One of the tolls for being in business is keeping up with competition. If your making an inferior product and selling it for nearly as much as FAR superior products. You should be called out for it.


Hell for that matter, why isn't there any kind of record or advise on service life of components or anything like that. Does anyone know of such a database? There should be some kind of wiki out there that documents when to replace things on specific models and things like that. I don't know why these machines don't have anything like that. Every other mechanical device i can think of has some kind of maintenance that is documented to prevent failure. Cars, aircraft, water craft. I suppose no one ever takes to time to translate their manual to English, this is probably asking too much. Maybe we should start a wiki? Just having such a data base would collectivize all the data in such a way that people would obviously, with little research, be able to pick a brand or "clone" that is not total garbage and in their price range based on the mechanical service life of individual parts. In the process it will weed out the, less than reputable, heli manufacturers. We don't need them if they aren't looking to improve them self for our hard earned money.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 01:27 AM
Complete RC Idiot Savant
The Netherlands
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Even reputable manufacturers like Vario are very careful giving maintenance intervals as they are highly depending on the use, and it is very easy to create confusion, as some people prefer "calendar based intervals (but how much are you really flying per week/month/year) and others count an hour on the field as an hour flying (when in fact you are maybe actually flying 20 minutes of that hour).
I think apart from the obvious "check everything before flying", Vario only recommends changing all ball links and the conrod every 30 runhours when doing 3D.

For example, the tail drive bevel gears of my Vario Cobra are identical to most of my other Vario models. Still in the Cobra I change them every 25 hours due to wear, in all other models they seem to last forever as those other tail rotors are signigficantly smaller.

It is also a lot of work because you need to keep track of every flight in order t collect actual runtime figures.
There is at least one "maintenance management program" specific for RC helicopters availlable, but I do not have a link to it.

I used a ripped version of AMOS-D, but whether you use that or the previous specific program, you still need to enter your timebased maintenance according to your own experience, which is different fro everybody individually.

Brgds, Bert
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 01:42 AM
Don't take any wooden nickels
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Brutus I keep a battery log so I just basically just count my hours from there. My flight time is usually really consistent , I'm still a newb . But I have a spot I can mark if I only slightly discharged a batt to store it or whatever, in which cases I don't count it. But it's not a bad system, works for me. Counts my batt cycles too. I'm a geek, I know.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 01:54 AM
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I've been trying a few android apps that are for logging time on your model as well as how many batteries. Their individual cycles used, current status and all kinds of things like how much charge was put into the pack, the internal resistance of each pack. Of course you just press a button to log a flight and select your pack. Then when your charging them you input the data and have it in basically a database you can take to the field. After each flight mark the packs and it will track all of your cycles for each pack.. If this kind of stuff makes me a "dork". I'm a "dork" like a fox. Whatever the hell that means.


I suppose, even for someone like me that drops by a field daily before or after work and on my days off. I fly A LOT. It's very hard to keep track of how many flights/run hours i put on something like my tail drive pulley or whatever before they start go wear down and go bad. Or the main culprit that has been a issue with Align helicopters as well as clones is the tail grips ejecting when the tail grip bearings wear out. It will eject the outer race of the bearing and the blade grip together, while the inner race stays attached to the spindle hub. Through all the time i put into a heli i couldn't tell you how many hours it was running before that bearing failed.

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Old Nov 24, 2012, 01:56 AM
Complete RC Idiot Savant
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For electrics that works prett good.... I use that too.... More or less....
Thing is I have 7 LiPo's that I use in 3 heli's.....
but to be honest, on the small electrics (450 sizers) I have not yet found a serious maintenance point in 2 years. Only checks as usual, but nothing that needs changing preventive. That is for scale type flying and hoovertraining (not me, I train others....). For 3D use it might be completely different....

For the fuelers it is a bit of a different story, and since I have a total of 8, it becomes impossible to keep track of it by heart, and on those you want to at least check things like fuel filter and lines, gear condition, tail rotor, blade grips etc on a regular basis, because everything is more subject to vibration and substances like the oil mist and other grime.
But you don't want to loosen up anything unnecessary as I have found more people crash from making small mistakes when doing "unnecessary preventive maintenance" (myself included)), than from lack of maintenance.
My fuel trainers usually can handle 25 hours of flying without any maintenance whatsoever (for me that comes down to maybe 2 or 3 months) but I keep a regime of 10 hours for some small checks, and every 60 hours I dismantle the closed parts such as enclosed gearboxes etc.
For some heli's those 60 hours can take more than 2 years to reach, that is why I use a computerized schedule....

Brgds, Bert
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:02 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I've been trying a few android apps that are for logging time on your model as well as how many batteries. Their individual cycles used, current status and all kinds of things like how much charge was put into the pack, the internal resistance of each pack. Of course you just press a button to log a flight and select your pack. Then when your charging them you input the data and have it in basically a database you can take to the field. After each flight mark the packs and it will track all of your cycles for each pack.. If this kind of stuff makes me a "dork". I'm a "dork" like a fox. Whatever the hell that means.


I suppose, even for someone like me that drops by a field daily before or after work and on my days off. I fly A LOT. It's very hard to keep track of how many flights/run hours i put on something like my tail drive pulley or whatever before they start go wear down and go bad. Or the main culprit that has been a issue with Align helicopters as well as clones is the tail grips ejecting when the tail grip bearings wear out. It will eject the outer race of the bearing and the blade grip together, while the inner race stays attached to the spindle hub. Through all the time i put into a heli i couldn't tell you how many hours it was running before that bearing failed.

Speaking of which. Tarot took the lead on this issue here and added thrust bearings to the tail grips. Gaui X5 tail grips use a bolt on the spindle hub and a nylock nut to hold the grips on. I think they also have thrust bearings. But align and many clones still have not caught on to this maintenance issue. I don't ever see it talked about till it happens to someone either.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:05 AM
Don't take any wooden nickels
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Brutus, I only have about 20 hrs under my belt! Only double your small checks.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:08 AM
Don't take any wooden nickels
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IntegrityHndywrk: I've heard about this before. Should I change my trex 450 pro v2 tail bearings? Would rcbearings bearings be any better at keeping that from happening? Or maybe I should look into thrust bearings.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:12 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus1967 View Post
For electrics that works prett good.... I use that too.... More or less....
Thing is I have 7 LiPo's that I use in 3 heli's.....
but to be honest, on the small electrics (450 sizers) I have not yet found a serious maintenance point in 2 years. Only checks as usual, but nothing that needs changing preventive. That is for scale type flying and hoovertraining (not me, I train others....). For 3D use it might be completely different....

For the fuelers it is a bit of a different story, and since I have a total of 8, it becomes impossible to keep track of it by heart, and on those you want to at least check things like fuel filter and lines, gear condition, tail rotor, blade grips etc on a regular basis, because everything is more subject to vibration and substances like the oil mist and other grime.
But you don't want to loosen up anything unnecessary as I have found more people crash from making small mistakes when doing "unnecessary preventive maintenance" (myself included)), than from lack of maintenance.
My fuel trainers usually can handle 25 hours of flying without any maintenance whatsoever (for me that comes down to maybe 2 or 3 months) but I keep a regime of 10 hours for some small checks, and every 60 hours I dismantle the closed parts such as enclosed gearboxes etc.
For some heli's those 60 hours can take more than 2 years to reach, that is why I use a computerized schedule....

Brgds, Bert
Nice. I'm all 3D. Well, i'm not hard core 3d yet. But i do the basics and am beginning to move into more aggressive things. My Gaui X5 is now on about flight 30. Which is around 3 run hours. Probably slightly more since i'm basing that on 6 minute flights but in the beginning of a brand new pack i get 7 minutes no problem till it degrades some. Then it's 6 minutes steady with plenty of room for scale flight at the end for a min. if i wanted. I also crashed the 450 a lot due to poor electronics. Only once did i dumb thumb that one. But it's spilled at least 30-40 times. Some of that fatigue could be what causes my "wear and tear" issues. But i agree. Sometimes people cause more problems in "maintenance" than if they would have just let the issues go. This is why i am hesitant to disassemble my Gaui X5 rotor head. I didn't have a spindle wrench when i go the heli, so i just put the already assembled rotor head on, in good faith that they put the thrust bearings on correctly and everything is greased!

If it's not, no big deal right? I found out that i don't need a spindle wrench and i can use a 450 main gear and the OWB. This is all the spindle wrench really is. It's just harder to leaver a round gear. But you can hold it solid and use a hex driver on the other side to remove the 2nd blade grip screw.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by finguz View Post
IntegrityHndywrk: I've heard about this before. Should I change my trex 450 pro v2 tail bearings? Would rcbearings bearings be any better at keeping that from happening? Or maybe I should look into thrust bearings.
Personally, i have my eyes set on the Tarot tail blade grips. They have updated Align's design with thrust bearings. They should fit just about any 450 clone or compatible. I think.....I'm going to order some for my highly modified V450D01. I think they should fit that too. Since the V450d01 is using what is essentially 450 sport or V1 mechanics with the belt drive. Something like that. It's kind of a clone with their own airframe. So i'm pretty sure the Align tail shaft, tail grips, tail boom, drive belt, tail drive gears. Basically everything will fit the V450D01. It's just that Align uses a different size ball on their cyclic and swash than Walkera. So some small differences.

Anyway, i digress. I plan on installing the Tarot tail grips because they have thrust bearings. Then i will also install the Align or Tarot or Alzrc DFC/SDC rotor head. Since the V1 V450D01 rotor heads and swash are basically discontinued.

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