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Old Mar 07, 2014, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeCutor View Post
Ok, this is weird. I dug up an old windows-machine and flashed using the same flashing-hardware and with the windows-version of the same software on the same device I consistently keep having issues with, flash went ok. Went back to the linux machine, same problem again. Back to the windows-setup, flashed ok again.
Ok, nevermind that. The successful flashing I managed to do in windows was of the normal firmware, not the rootloader. I'd been able to flash that in Linux too without an issue. I get basically the same error in windows but on a different address.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 03:16 PM
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I've dug up another V2 device, I've got 3 in total. It seems the third device exhibits exactly the same problems as the problematic one. Thus, I've got 2 I cannot flash with avrootloader, and the one I can flash with avrootloader I can't get to successfully connect with the avrootloader software...
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 05:05 PM
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Something strange is going on here, lexm has a problem as well. He believes his problem is caused by noisy/low 3.3V from the programmer.

The AVRootloader occupies the space from 0x3E00 - 0x3FFF. Either the chip erase is not working properly or there is a Flash read or write problem.

After the write of the AVRootloader fails, power off/on the RX3S and use the USBASB to read the flash and then save it to a file. As an Intel Hex files if possible, it not as a binary file and post it here.

If you have a scope of at least a volt meter, measure the voltage between ground and 3.3V on the RX3S (you can make this measurement across C18) and tell us what you read with the USBASP connected.

John



Quote:
Originally Posted by XeCutor View Post
I've dug up another V2 device, I've got 3 in total. It seems the third device exhibits exactly the same problems as the problematic one. Thus, I've got 2 I cannot flash with avrootloader, and the one I can flash with avrootloader I can't get to successfully connect with the avrootloader software...
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Old Mar 08, 2014, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnRB View Post
Something strange is going on here, lexm has a problem as well. He believes his problem is caused by noisy/low 3.3V from the programmer.

The AVRootloader occupies the space from 0x3E00 - 0x3FFF. Either the chip erase is not working properly or there is a Flash read or write problem.

After the write of the AVRootloader fails, power off/on the RX3S and use the USBASB to read the flash and then save it to a file. As an Intel Hex files if possible, it not as a binary file and post it here.

If you have a scope of at least a volt meter, measure the voltage between ground and 3.3V on the RX3S (you can make this measurement across C18) and tell us what you read with the USBASP connected.

John
It seems I was able to flash one of the problematic devices using avrdude instead of extremeburner late last evening, but I may have been dreaming because I was so tired.

Where would I find C18 to measure across? I've got some decent volt meters, but no scope.

Even though the flashing software tells me I've got a bootloader flashed and verified, I'm still unable to use it because I can't get avrootloader in windows to find my device. I'm going to post a picture of my wiring setup and hope somebody can find an issue with it.
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Old Mar 08, 2014, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeCutor View Post
It seems I was able to flash one of the problematic devices using avrdude instead of extremeburner late last evening, but I may have been dreaming because I was so tired.

Where would I find C18 to measure across? I've got some decent volt meters, but no scope.

Even though the flashing software tells me I've got a bootloader flashed and verified, I'm still unable to use it because I can't get avrootloader in windows to find my device. I'm going to post a picture of my wiring setup and hope somebody can find an issue with it.
Try using external power when flashing the bootloader with the usbasp.
Remove the power jumper on the usbasp if it has one or disconnect the vcc wire and plug a battery into the stab.
Fixed my similar problems.

Read this.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2607
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Old Mar 08, 2014, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRB View Post

I use a www.betemcu.cn 2011/03/05 USBASP. This device had decoupling and bulk capacitors on both the input and the output - partial schematic below.
Both of mine have neither on the output side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRB View Post
I am still surprised that there is so much noise on your 3.3V line. Have you checked the USB 5V? Tried a different USB cable?
5V is fine. No usb cable involved. Noise is typical of an undamped voltage regulator

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRB View Post
The RX3S V2 has a 47uF bulk capacitor on the 3.3V net as well as 4 decoupling capacitors however these are located a long distance (cable length) away from the regulator output in your case.

Was your scope connected close to the input and ground of the RX3S ISP pins?
I've been using a scope for 40+ years on digital electronics. The noise was real and apparent on both end of the cable. Less at the V2 end due to the local cap, but still apparent. (Scope with isolated ground and grounded near the measurement point in each case..)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRB View Post
I believe you have the problem but it is not clear to me why the verify works OK, but the AVRootloader firmware appears to be corrupt.

Are you able to read out the AVRootloader code after you write it via the failing USBASP programming method and save it to a file? If you can, then you can compare the programmed data with the data from the source file. If you cannot save the data as an Intel Hex files, you will have to use a utility to convert the source Intel Hex file to binary before the compare.
John
Done that. Data read correctly, files identical. Suspect the eeprom storage voltages are good enough to read, which would be a slower access, but not good enough at execution speed.


The ap sheet shows 22uF cap required on output of regulator. I tried a 4.7uF (that's best I could find in the drawer) and the 3.3v looks reasonably clean, Haven't had time to do a full test. When I get a chance I'll modify the usbasp's with 22uF and try again just to satisfy curiosity.

In the meantime, I'll use external power when using 3.3v usbasp. I no longer have a problem.
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Old Mar 08, 2014, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexm View Post
Try using external power when flashing the bootloader with the usbasp.
Remove the power jumper on the usbasp if it has one or disconnect the vcc wire and plug a battery into the stab.
Fixed my similar problems.

Read this.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2607
Using external power when programming the bootloader using the usbasp I was able to successfully flash and verify the bootloader on two devices that I've thus far been unable to get the bootloader to install on. Unfortunately, I'm still quite unsuccessful at actually connecting to the bootloader to flash the stabilizer firmware, it's as if nothing was connected. Any tips? I've made the connecting cable myself (the one in the picture above), but I've got a hard time believing I could have screwed it up so badly it's impossible to get a serial connection over those few centimeters?
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Old Mar 08, 2014, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeCutor View Post
Even though the flashing software tells me I've got a bootloader flashed and verified, I'm still unable to use it because I can't get avrootloader in windows to find my device. I'm going to post a picture of my wiring setup and hope somebody can find an issue with it.
Total and complete swag here from looking at your wiring (since I'm currently waiting on the hardware to do exactly what you are trying to do) but have you tried unplugging the USBASP device from the PC and leaving only the serial programmer plugged in on the off chance that its' presence is causing any confusion? No idea if that's even a real possibility, just trying to remove variables.
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Old Mar 08, 2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mdmyers View Post
Total and complete swag here from looking at your wiring (since I'm currently waiting on the hardware to do exactly what you are trying to do) but have you tried unplugging the USBASP device from the PC and leaving only the serial programmer plugged in on the off chance that its' presence is causing any confusion? No idea if that's even a real possibility, just trying to remove variables.
I have, I've tried different ports too, I haven't tried another windows machine (yet) although I've tried to flash using linux, but it's hard to know if I'm failing there because of the same reason I'm failing in windows or for some other reason. I basically got the same problem there in the end, a message about a failure to find a device to connect with.
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Old Mar 08, 2014, 10:54 PM
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are you using windows 8? if so, apparently the current drivers do not support the prolific 2303 chip.

you can check by going to the device manager and look under Ports (COM & LPT). if there is a yellow triangle with the "Prolific USB-to-Serial Comm Port (COM8)" item (and something about error code 10), then the win8 driver is the problem.

there is a workaround (by using an older driver): http://leftbraintinkering.blogspot.c...03-device.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by XeCutor View Post
I have, I've tried different ports too, I haven't tried another windows machine (yet) although I've tried to flash using linux, but it's hard to know if I'm failing there because of the same reason I'm failing in windows or for some other reason. I basically got the same problem there in the end, a message about a failure to find a device to connect with.
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Old Mar 09, 2014, 05:24 AM
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Initializing with RX3S V3/ ORX receivers on V2

Hi Friends!

I now have V3's without housing (7gr) in all of my indoor planes. So yesterday, we were indoor flying again and hat a lot of fun indoor with them.OFS- Firmware works great also indoor, letting me look much better on the sticks than i am

I tried several things to get rid of the "self moving" ailerungs, elevators, rudder in HH- Mode and came to this idea:

When connecting the battery to the esc, i see all steering surfaces (right word) move just 2 or 3 mm and stay there for ca. 2 secs. then they all go to neutral. Short time after that the gyro shows its 3wiggles- now everything is ok except that all surfaces move a bit as soon as i trie the HH Mode.

At that point yesterday, i got an idea while remembering that there was a maybe similar thing somewhat around the V2.X updates of Beast X's Microbeast FBL Unit according to a problem they had with Spektrum Users.

Thiniking about that, i disconnected the battery, waited 2 secs and connnected it again -> everything fine, no movement in HH, great flying.
This is reproduceable with all 3 indoor planes (2 X 2014-08-02, 1 X 2013-12-27 version), i have the V3 in and also wit a ORX615 + V2- combination (2014-08-02 version) on by test bench.

With Jetis R6 in my Carbon Z-Cub, i only see this maybe in 2 out of 10 times.
What i know about the Jeti RX's is that they are much faster going from "battery connect to valid Servo signals out"

Having that in mind, my idea to that the "HH-Movement problem" can be caused by a similar effect, the BeastX- guys were facing with Spektrum users:

After battery connect, the receiver just gives out something to the servos, maybe what he had last before disonnect aftr lat flight ore something like that. He needs abt. 2 secs to find/read his TX input until giving out the right signals to the servos. During that time, the RX3S already has saved the first, slightly different servo sig's as his "neutral at initializing" already.
After RX is ready now, his neutral is not really the RX3S neutral - hopefully i could make my thoughts clear with my limited english abilities?


@ Noobee & JohnRB: the BeastX Guys had the same problem last year and solved it by putting 2 or 3 secs "wait befor initialize" into their Microbeast firmware especially for the Spektrum users then to solve the problem -> worked.

Do i think the right way maybe about that problem? Would it be possible to get a V2/V3 firmware file with, let's say "4 seconds wait before you look after your servos neutral" to test this out?

Maybe 3.5 or 3 secs would be enough - but 4 secs just to be sure for testing...


Best regards from Germany...

Frank
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Old Mar 09, 2014, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobee View Post
are you using windows 8? if so, apparently the current drivers do not support the prolific 2303 chip.

you can check by going to the device manager and look under Ports (COM & LPT). if there is a yellow triangle with the "Prolific USB-to-Serial Comm Port (COM8)" item (and something about error code 10), then the win8 driver is the problem.

there is a workaround (by using an older driver): http://leftbraintinkering.blogspot.c...03-device.html
No, I've done all the flashing from an old laptop using Win7 32-bit, or an even older laptop using debian-mint linux.
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Old Mar 09, 2014, 09:43 AM
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Are you clicking on "Connect to device" before connecting the cable to the RX3S? If you connect the cable first, providing the RX3S power, you only have about 600ms to click on "Connect to device". If you miss that window, you will never connect.

John

UPDATE Mar 10 2014
The 600ms posted above is the time allowed for the programming box to connect to the RX3S firmware.
The time allowed to connect to the AVRootloader is about 250ms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XeCutor View Post
I have, I've tried different ports too, I haven't tried another windows machine (yet) although I've tried to flash using linux, but it's hard to know if I'm failing there because of the same reason I'm failing in windows or for some other reason. I basically got the same problem there in the end, a message about a failure to find a device to connect with.
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Old Mar 09, 2014, 11:50 AM
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can you summarize the issue again? i believe the following is your case?

1. you are able to flash the bootloader using usbasp (on all your devices especially after using external power after notes from lexm)
2. the windows avrootloader cannot connect to the bootloader (even on pre-win8 machines). linux is not involved since the windows avrootloader only runs on windows

so, a couple of questions:
1. is your OrangeRX USB Firmware Update Kit recognized as a COM port on your windows machines? if so, which COM port?
2. can you manually set the COM port in the windows avrootloader? it defaults to auto, but you can set it to the specific port.
3. given your set up in post 2629, i believe the enerloops are powering up the rx3s?
4. is your sequence the following (after all the physical connections in your pic)?
A. run windows avrootloader
B. set up the COM port
C. click on Connect
D. turn on enerloop power
E. RX3S powered up, bootloader runs, sees active connection probes (since you've clicked on Connect) and should connect to the windows avrootloader
5. you cannot turn on enerloop power then click on Connect, as JohnRB said.

i think we need to confirm that the device is recognized as a valid COM port first. please check the device manager that there are no errors with that COM port.

i set this up on my win8 machine yesterday and had a hard time with the drivers. but since you had pre-win8, i don't think the prolific 2303 drivers are the issue.



Quote:
Originally Posted by XeCutor View Post
No, I've done all the flashing from an old laptop using Win7 32-bit, or an even older laptop using debian-mint linux.
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Old Mar 09, 2014, 12:03 PM
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ok, let me try to see i understand. the key suggestion is to

wait for valid RX signal before starting to output to servo?

in this way, we would avoid the case where
1. we power up the device
2. we set all servo output to "neutral" (eg those are powerup defaults)
3. we then see real rx input values
4. we update the servo output based off those rx values.

so 2 and then 4 causes the servo output to shift a little.

does that sound right?

i also didn't understand the HH issue?

thanks

btw. i just looked at the video. i don't think you actually need a stabilizer





Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSan View Post
Hi Friends!

I now have V3's without housing (7gr) in all of my indoor planes. So yesterday, we were indoor flying again and hat a lot of fun indoor with them.OFS- Firmware works great also indoor, letting me look much better on the sticks than i am

I tried several things to get rid of the "self moving" ailerungs, elevators, rudder in HH- Mode and came to this idea:

When connecting the battery to the esc, i see all steering surfaces (right word) move just 2 or 3 mm and stay there for ca. 2 secs. then they all go to neutral. Short time after that the gyro shows its 3wiggles- now everything is ok except that all surfaces move a bit as soon as i trie the HH Mode.

At that point yesterday, i got an idea while remembering that there was a maybe similar thing somewhat around the V2.X updates of Beast X's Microbeast FBL Unit according to a problem they had with Spektrum Users.

Thiniking about that, i disconnected the battery, waited 2 secs and connnected it again -> everything fine, no movement in HH, great flying.
This is reproduceable with all 3 indoor planes (2 X 2014-08-02, 1 X 2013-12-27 version), i have the V3 in and also wit a ORX615 + V2- combination (2014-08-02 version) on by test bench.

With Jetis R6 in my Carbon Z-Cub, i only see this maybe in 2 out of 10 times.
What i know about the Jeti RX's is that they are much faster going from "battery connect to valid Servo signals out"

Having that in mind, my idea to that the "HH-Movement problem" can be caused by a similar effect, the BeastX- guys were facing with Spektrum users:

After battery connect, the receiver just gives out something to the servos, maybe what he had last before disonnect aftr lat flight ore something like that. He needs abt. 2 secs to find/read his TX input until giving out the right signals to the servos. During that time, the RX3S already has saved the first, slightly different servo sig's as his "neutral at initializing" already.
After RX is ready now, his neutral is not really the RX3S neutral - hopefully i could make my thoughts clear with my limited english abilities?


@ Noobee & JohnRB: the BeastX Guys had the same problem last year and solved it by putting 2 or 3 secs "wait befor initialize" into their Microbeast firmware especially for the Spektrum users then to solve the problem -> worked.

Do i think the right way maybe about that problem? Would it be possible to get a V2/V3 firmware file with, let's say "4 seconds wait before you look after your servos neutral" to test this out?

Maybe 3.5 or 3 secs would be enough - but 4 secs just to be sure for testing...


Best regards from Germany...

Frank
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