HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 08, 2002, 03:45 PM
Registered User
TGoodwin's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 2000
2,558 Posts
Kyosho Composite F16 all up weight.

Hello I am building a composite fuse Kyosho F16. I am wondering what the weight limit is on this bird . I am starting to worry that it is getting too FAT and may be a lead slead.

As it sits at the moment everything is complete but needs to be installed and the top half of the fuse joined. My all up weight at the moment including all components is 49 7/8 oz. This includes fuse+bulkheads, composite inlet duct, MF480+Hacker B40-9L, Master 70-3P opto, battery tray+10xcp1700's, 4 HS81's, RX+switch+battery, and wings+stabs. I still need to join the fuse and glue the wings/stabs on and paint. I estimate another 6-8 oz ready to fly. That will put it in at 55-58 oz. What do you think? Will she fly well or have I waisted a bunch of time and energy?

TGoodwin is offline Find More Posts by TGoodwin
Last edited by TGoodwin; Jun 08, 2002 at 04:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 08, 2002, 04:20 PM
Registered User
Daren's Avatar
Los Alamos, NM, USofA
Joined Nov 2000
3,123 Posts
Sounds a bit overweight to me, but I'm not an expert.

Daren
Daren is offline Find More Posts by Daren
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 08, 2002, 04:38 PM
Registered User
TGoodwin's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 2000
2,558 Posts
image





Images

Ted
TGoodwin is offline Find More Posts by TGoodwin
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 08, 2002, 06:04 PM
Registered User
TGoodwin's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 2000
2,558 Posts
AUW

Daren-Yeah thats what I am affraid of. Also this setup is only pulling a little over 30A on a fresh pack dropping into the high 20's. I think it read somewhere over 300W on 10 cells. Looks like marginal power too. I can not really test it though because all of the majic smoke came out of my charger! Maybe I should go to 12 or 14 cells?

Ted
TGoodwin is offline Find More Posts by TGoodwin
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 09, 2002, 04:04 PM
Registered User
TGoodwin's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 2000
2,558 Posts
batteries?

This is what I figure for the batteries.



Cells-AUWoz-Watts/lbs-Wing load-Runtime-Amps-Watts

CP1300's

10-45.64-115.7-21.76-2.6min-30A-330W
12-49.24-154.3-23.48-2.16min-36A-475W
14-50.94-203-24.29-1.86min-42A-646.8W

CP1700's

10-49.84-105.9-23.77-3.4min-30A-330W
12-53.19-142.9-25.36-2.83min-36A-475W
14-56.69-182.6-27.03-2.43min-42A-646.8W

CP2400's

10-53.55-98.6-25.54-4.8min-30A-330W
12-57.78-131.5-27.55-4min-36A-475W
14-62.01-166.9-29.57-3.43min-42A-646.8W

Assuming 1.1V per cell and 2.72727272A per volt taken from my reading on the 10xCP1700 pack. Would these number be accurate?

The total airframe weight without MF480, B40-9L, 70-3p, and battery is 32.38 oz. With a 10 cell CP1700 pack that would be 46% of the AUW.

What would be the MAX wing loading I would want to go with this plane reguardless of input power? How much current will this motor handle?

Thanks Ted
TGoodwin is offline Find More Posts by TGoodwin
Last edited by TGoodwin; Jun 09, 2002 at 07:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 09, 2002, 05:33 PM
Flying Welder Pilot
Plane Crazy's Avatar
Reno, Nevada
Joined Jan 2001
1,137 Posts
I think you can get it to fly. But it is going to be on the heavy side. Because of this you are going to have to push the MF480 to its limits to get the RPMs up to the level of getting decent thrust to move that bird. Hand launch is out, and bungee launch will be a necessity. A 25 oz wing loading would be about as far I would take it. A 25 oz wing loading would allow you a 52.42 oz RTF wieght MAX. With somewhere around 530 watts you would get about 38.7 oz of static thrust, 1.35 thrust to weight ratio, 161 watts/pound. Not a screamer but doable. Use the CP1700s and live with the shorter durations. I am not sure what the limits are on the B40 9L.

You may want to forgo the final paint until you get a flight done, just to see if it will be worth it to finish her up. What layup did you use for the fuse?(layers,Oz, gel coat?)

Good Luck

Gordon
Plane Crazy is offline Find More Posts by Plane Crazy
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 09, 2002, 07:18 PM
Registered User
TGoodwin's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 2000
2,558 Posts
layup

The fuse is a single 6 oz layer with about a 1" wide second layer running the length of the fuse on either side at the wing root. As far as gel coat I used Thixotropic Silica to radius any sharp corners. The parts came out really nice with no bubbles or pinholes. Here is a breakdown on the airframe weight compaired with the original foam fuse.

Foam - Glass
-----------------------------
144g fuse - 244g fuse
NONE - 79g inlet duct
NONE - 39g bulkheads, batt tray
101g wings - 101g wings
38g stabs - 38g stabs

283g Total - 501g Total

Plus
142g RX, switch, RX batt, 4xHS81's

Plus
270g MF480, B40-9L, 70-3p

----------------------------------------
695g Total-Batt- 913g Total-Batt

PLUS

376g-840g BATTERY

CP1300-2400 10-14 cells.

How many CP1700's would give me 530W? Would'nt that be .74:1 thrust to weight ratio?

Thanks Ted
TGoodwin is offline Find More Posts by TGoodwin
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 10, 2002, 12:22 PM
Registered User
TGoodwin's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 2000
2,558 Posts
Gordon- I was checking out your website. Nice glass work on the twinjet and OV10. I have always wanted to build a Bronco. On the twinjet I noticed that it is molded all in one piece. How did you join the wing? Glass tape on the inside? I was thinking about doing the same thing with the Wattage F22 with two of there 400 fans and 4011 cobalts. I measured 17 5/8 oz thrust with one of these fans/motors on 10 cells.

I plan on bungee launching the F16. Wing loading will be too High for hand launch. I did a search on the B40-9L. Looks like it is good to about 50A but that is pushing it. I think the test flight will be on 12xcp1700 pack. I am hopeing that the inlet ducting will buy me somthing besides added weight.

Thanks for the info.

Ted
TGoodwin is offline Find More Posts by TGoodwin
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 10, 2002, 02:13 PM
Flying Welder Pilot
Plane Crazy's Avatar
Reno, Nevada
Joined Jan 2001
1,137 Posts
Ted- On the twinjet the fuse/wing halves are joined using probond glue, sprayed with water to get the Probond to foam up. In the event of a crash the seams split to absorb the shock. Just a little more probond and the plane is back together. This is about the lightest solution I have found. I hardly ever use epoxy in the assembly of my glass planes anymore.

If you decide to try another fuselage sometime with your mold: Most of my glass fuselages use 2 layers of 2 oz cloth. But in your case 1 layer of 2 oz, and 1 layer of 1 1/2 oz with some carbon fiber veil reinforcment would have given you a lighter part. The lighter weight cloth has a tighter weave and smaller holes in the cloth,less resin is required. 2 layer layups are stronger because the two layers work against each other to make stronger parts. Always go over the layup and pat with paper towels to sop up excess resin, you want a fairly dry layup.

Good luck with your test flight.

Gordon
Plane Crazy is offline Find More Posts by Plane Crazy
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2002, 02:16 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Re: Kyosho Composite F16 all up weight.

Quote:
Originally posted by TGoodwin
That will put it in at 55-58 oz. What do you think? Will she fly well or have I waisted a bunch of time and energy?

The weight on mine 48 oz, with 480 Watts of power (MF480 & Aveox 1010/2y on 16 cells), here's how she flies

http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/f16/f-16_mine.mpg (17.8 MB)

Yours is ten oz heavier and power is around 400+ Watts so she should fly but not too aerobatic. Btw the wing & hor stabs are the weakest part in the Ky F-16.

Btw your pack seem quite long and will have to extend significantly into the duct to get proper CG (kyosho recomm CG is too forward) creating quite a bit of turbulence right in front of the fan, can you re-configure it?
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jun 11, 2002 at 02:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2002, 10:22 PM
Registered User
Ed Waldrep's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 1996
7,935 Posts
Turbulence in Ted's F-16? There will be no such problems, he's using molded inlet ducting, the battery can slide back quite a ways until it hits the ducting, plus with not having a foam fuselage he has extra room on the inside since the fiberglass is not that thick. I've seen this thing up close and personal, it's gonna cook. The thick wing may hold it back a bit but he can always cut new cores with a better, thinner airfoil.
Ed Waldrep is offline Find More Posts by Ed Waldrep
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12, 2002, 01:53 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Yes I see the duct now, so the ten cells should not be a problem duct-wise. What holds the battery from not collapsing into the duct on landings?
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12, 2002, 03:18 AM
Registered User
TGoodwin's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 2000
2,558 Posts
Yeah I think it will need more power too. I switched the controller to mode 2. That advanced the timing from 5 to 10 degrees. The documentation says that this is the max power setting for the hacker motor. It seems to be about a 20W differance on the 10 cell pack. I am also making up both 12 and 14 cell packs. I was disapointed with the 300W+ reading on the 10 cell pack. Starting to think I should have gotten the B40-8L instead. Do I want the brake set to on or off? I wonder how many watts this motor/fan can withstand?

The ducting is all smooth inside with smooth tranitions and a rounded intake lip. The battery is held in place buy a lite ply battery try that interlocks into the 1st and 2nd bulkheads.

I may have this thing done in time for a test flight this weekend. Primer finish only though. Only one sure way to tell how it will fly i guess.

Thanks for the advice. Ted
TGoodwin is offline Find More Posts by TGoodwin
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12, 2002, 01:47 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by TGoodwin
... I wonder how many watts this motor/fan can withstand?
I'd say 600 Watts for sure .
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2002, 02:57 AM
Registered User
Oxford, MS
Joined Apr 2002
1,134 Posts
Nice fuse! I like fibreglass better than foam but then again who doesn't? Anyway I'm curious as to how you made it? Did you just use the original F-16 foam fuse with some kinda mold release and then just glass over it?
Hopperfly22 is offline Find More Posts by Hopperfly22
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Art Hobby Hyper all up weight Botterii Hand Launch 7 Feb 16, 2003 04:24 AM
I got to fly my first super tiny plane- 35gram all up weight aaronredbaron Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 2 Aug 27, 2002 07:25 PM
All Up Weight fdisker Foamies (Kits) 3 Aug 16, 2002 04:17 PM
Big T all up weight kenny_dilger Sport Planes 2 Jul 19, 2002 11:42 AM
IFO all up weight, how light is yours? Paul Ionmonger Parkflyers 0 May 24, 2001 07:50 PM