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Old Nov 12, 2012, 11:56 AM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by Tim Green View Post
I've setup my default Guardian 2D pitch about 10 degrees up, with a slight leftward roll as well. This should result in being able to use 2D for a recovery mode that instead of plowing straight ahead straight and level, the plane will slowly rise in a CCW spiral - thus avoiding trees, buildings, etc. that might otherwise be in the way - and this also prevents a plane in unattended 2D mode from flying off on a straight line into lala land.

So - I'll use 3D for fun and windy days - and use 2D only for emergency recoveries. (Haven't tried it yet - but it ought to work )
I have thought about doing something like that as a fail safe. Set up the fail safe presets to put Guardian in 2D with a slight bank and not quite enough throttle to stay airborne. The objective to put the plane in a slow, circling descent. The pitch would need to be set for a safe glide, however. Your climb scenario would likely have the plane getting higher and higher as it drifts slowly away with the wind. When the battery or fuel runs out, it would come down with a series of stalls or a spin.

As pointed out, I think your pitch angle would be problematic. Also, if you want the plane to circle you will need to turn off heading hold. Otherwise 2D will just override your bank angle to hold the plane on course.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 12:00 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Camarillo
Joined Jul 2012
370 Posts
Shrinkage

I think my Guardian shrank.

I can't seem to install the servo plugs all the way into the socket. If I push them in all the way, they pull out by themselves part way. The pins are too close together.



Anyone think that might damage the terminals or have a problem with them falling out?

Barry
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 12:05 PM
lud
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Berkshire UK
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You could always take a perma grit board to your servo plugs- thats what i've ended up doing for the micro Corona RX's
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 01:37 PM
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United States, CA, Camarillo
Joined Jul 2012
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That worked lud. Just had to sand three of them.



The pin pitch is 2.5mm. So I only needed to sand on one side of the three inside plugs, sanding them down to 2.5mm thickness.

Barry
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 07:28 PM
Launch the drones ...
Ashtabula, OH USA
Joined May 1999
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Originally Posted by DavidN View Post
If you are near stall speed, pitching 10 deg could send you into a left spiral dive. Also if you are in an "unknown" attitude, I would worry these settings would not get you out, especially if you reflexly cut power.
Right - I mitigated that by coupling the 2D part of my mode switch to 50% minimum throttle. So, I can fly it either way - without the coupling where I have to remember to add throttle when I switch to 2D, or as above where it automatically kicks in a minimum amount of throttle when 2D is switched on.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 07:39 PM
Launch the drones ...
Ashtabula, OH USA
Joined May 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
I have thought about doing something like that as a fail safe. Set up the fail safe presets to put Guardian in 2D with a slight bank and not quite enough throttle to stay airborne. The objective to put the plane in a slow, circling descent. The pitch would need to be set for a safe glide, however. Your climb scenario would likely have the plane getting higher and higher as it drifts slowly away with the wind. When the battery or fuel runs out, it would come down with a series of stalls or a spin.

As pointed out, I think your pitch angle would be problematic. Also, if you want the plane to circle you will need to turn off heading hold. Otherwise 2D will just override your bank angle to hold the plane on course.
In 2D mode and with the default 2D mode set for pitch up with slight bank - when I hold the plane in my hands, the controls are only at neutral when the plane is pitched up 10 degrees and slightly rolled to the left.

So, I think when it's flying, since it's neutral control position is when the plane is pitched up 10 degrees and banked slightly, that when flying the controls will work to keep the pane in this orientation, meaning the plane will climb while banking, which should cause the plane to turn also. But honestly - haven't tried it yet - so don't really know.

Throttle has to be tied in with this as well, in order to climb - and recovery to me means climbing up and out of the way - until I can regain control.

Should work, provided the stabilizer in 2D mode doesn't somehow determine that it's not traveling straight and try to straighten out the turn. Depends on how heading hold is implemented within the Guardian - else, perhaps you are right, and I may have to turn off heading hold in 2D mode, if that's an option, to effect a turning recovery mode in 2D. The plane might even just take off in a straight line going up, but doing so while banked.
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Last edited by Tim Green; Nov 12, 2012 at 07:45 PM.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:17 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Green View Post
The plane might even just take off in a straight line going up, but doing so while banked.
Activate 2D on the ground. Rotate the plane until all surfaces are neutralized. Now yaw the plane in the direction of the bank, changing nothing else. I think you will find the Guardian will adjust the roll as necessary to hold the heading. Haven't tried it.

You might better achieve your goal by setting 2D level and adding a trim offset to the ailerons when the switch is in 2D. Guardian should interpret this as as a command to continuously change heading, causing a circle. Haven't tried this either. The same technique should work to establish a climb with the Guardian set for level flight. This might be easier to adjust.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 08:03 AM
Launch the drones ...
Ashtabula, OH USA
Joined May 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Activate 2D on the ground. Rotate the plane until all surfaces are neutralized. Now yaw the plane in the direction of the bank, changing nothing else. I think you will find the Guardian will adjust the roll as necessary to hold the heading. Haven't tried it.
You were right - in 2D Guardian adjusts yaw using ailerons -- so no sustained turns using Guardian setup with default settings. So I checked 3D too while I was at it, and found that 3D adjusts yaw using the rudder instead of ailerons. This is with the Guardian setup using all of the defaults. At any rate, the Guardian won't stay in a turn with this functionality. I wonder which of them, if any, could be turned off, by disabling which Guardian 2D or 3D sub options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
You might better achieve your goal by setting 2D level and adding a trim offset to the ailerons when the switch is in 2D. Guardian should interpret this as as a command to continuously change heading, causing a circle. Haven't tried this either. The same technique should work to establish a climb with the Guardian set for level flight. This might be easier to adjust.
Better yet though is your above suggestion to create the Guardian 2D climbing/turning recovery failsafe in conjunction with trims that are enacted when the Guardian mode switch is set to 2D position. Trims that set elevator up and ailerons in a slight roll.

I'll reset my Guardian 2D trim to normal - and setup my radio to induce the climbing turn whenever the Guardian is set to 2D mode.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:48 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Green View Post
I wonder which of them, if any, could be turned off, by disabling which Guardian 2D or 3D sub options?
It should be able to turn if you set heading hold in 2D to zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Green View Post
I'll reset my Guardian 2D trim to normal - and setup my radio to induce the climbing turn whenever the Guardian is set to 2D mode.
This should work but you may need a lot of aileron offset. Otherwise you may wind up with a 1/4 mile radius, which is as good as a straight line.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 04:17 PM
Launch the drones ...
Ashtabula, OH USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
It should be able to turn if you set heading hold in 2D to zero.



This should work but you may need a lot of aileron offset. Otherwise you may wind up with a 1/4 mile radius, which is as good as a straight line.
I tried aileron added during 2D mode - but the Guardian behaves differently upon entering 2D mode and then subsequently using the stick to deflect the ailerons while performing a 2D turn, then upon entering 2D mode while the ailerons are simultaneously deflected by the radio programming. In this latter mode, the stabilizer can actually lower both ailerons simultaneously - as if trying to add camber to the wing. So - a climbing turn is out of the question, at least not without turning 2D heading hold to 0, as you mentioned.

But the climbing part can be done either way - Either by setting the Guardian 2D default trim to have positive pitch, or by setting the transmitter to provide positive pitch when 2D is switched on. The Guardian seems to be happy maintaining the positive pitch in 2D mode, no matter which of these two ways were used to do it. Hmmm - I'm thinking that I need to raise and lower the Guardian in 2D mode without changing the pitch, and see if the Guardian does anything to the elevator as it moves up or down.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 05:25 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Green View Post
entering 2D mode while the ailerons are simultaneously deflected by the radio programming. In this latter mode, the stabilizer can actually lower both ailerons simultaneously - as if trying to add camber to the wing. So - a climbing turn is out of the question, at least not without turning 2D heading hold to 0, as you mentioned.
That's odd, sounds like a bug. A left aileron command from the tx should cause Guardian to turn left, in 2D mode. Guardian can see no difference whether that command resulted from stick movement, trim, or programmed offset. More to the point, it shouldn't matter whether the command was present when 2D was switched on, or issued later.

I assume you have two aileron servos with one on the aux channel? I don't have any planes with this setup to try to replicate this, perhaps someone else can. You could try it with a Y on the aileron channel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Green View Post
Hmmm - I'm thinking that I need to raise and lower the Guardian in 2D mode without changing the pitch, and see if the Guardian does anything to the elevator as it moves up or down.
It should, it can't tell the difference. If its pitch changes it should move the elevator, whether the plane changed pitch or not. Are you thinking of mounting the Guardian on a servo?
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Green View Post
the ailerons are simultaneously deflected by the radio programming. In this latter mode, the stabilizer can actually lower both ailerons simultaneously -
FWIW I ran into this when I mixed elevator to ailerons. Snap flaps? I was going to mix elevator to each aileron (two aileron servos). Elevator mixed to R ail (Dx7s tx) would result in the ailerons moving like ailerons, one up, one down. Elevator mixed to L ail would move the ailerons up and down together. In flight it worked like it did static, I have elevator mixed to only one aileron to get the elevator to aileron (snap flap?) mix. Works the same 2D or Off or 3D.

Gives an interesting opportunity to use flapperons despite the flap switch being occupied by Guardian. I have a Dx7s and I can mix elev (or other) to L ail, 0% mix, but with offset to drop the ailerons as flapperons with any switch. Setting servo limits in the Guardian programming would allow this nicely without the usual problem of exceeding (down) servo travel while using the ailerons with the flapperons down.
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Last edited by t.edwards; Nov 14, 2012 at 05:04 PM. Reason: more info
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 06:22 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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@Tim Green

Something that could contribute to the problem, or not. When you set the level for the Guardian, you automatically reset the trims. If the turn offset is present at the time, G will think that it means "straight ahead" and it could confuse your 3D as well since they share the trims.

Also, you reset the trims by toggling the mode switch, but in your case the trim changes as you switch modes. This could confuse G and could yield different settings depending on which way you flipped the switch. You may have to disable the turn offset while resetting the trims/level and turn it back on afterwards.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 08:15 PM
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Guardian as a gimbal controller?

Has there been any news on a possible firmware update for using the Guardian as a gimbal controller? I bought a second Guardian and would really like to try this out.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:32 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by BJM-Maxx View Post
Has there been any news on a possible firmware update for using the Guardian as a gimbal controller? I bought a second Guardian and would really like to try this out.
Try it as-is. You will probably want 2D mode to keep the camera level, or at your selected angle. For best results disable heading hold and zero the derivative gain to minimize jitters. That should stabilize fairly well on the roll and pitch axes. You might experiment with the Guardian mounted on the gimbal vs. the platform. The yaw axis is problematic as 2D mode rolls the plane to hold heading so with heading hold on you will get tilt as the heading changes and with heading hold off you will get nothing with heading changes.
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