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Old Mar 05, 2014, 01:37 PM
rip
ripacheco's Avatar
United States, FL, Niceville
Joined Jan 2013
1,709 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pogeybait View Post
Guys - many thanks for the ideas. I tried the string/nut method and it worked brilliantly. The path is not straight, but it was pretty easy to get the nut through by jiggling the wing (tip to ceiling) laterally.

I know this thread is quite old, but I recommend that the string be used to pull through a length of fishing line.

Thanks again.
In glad it worked. Being ham fisted, I have broken the guide strings myself.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 11:49 AM
Registered User
Brazil Indiana
Joined Sep 2010
13 Posts
Mystique Mysteries

Just finished assembling the Mystique. I tried to use pretty much all of the included parts and pieces they recommended and here's my review and questions:

First my question: I found the plane to be nose heavy, not tail heavy as some of the reviews stated. I added a flight battery pack in lieu of the BEC and stuck it as far back as I could reach in the narrow fuse. I also moved the 4S pack (also recommended over a 3s for the extra weight, which you don't need) as far back as I could. It resides against the back of the elev and rud servos. That brought the CG pretty close to the manual stated 118 mm from the leading edge. To get that I had to add 1 oz to the tail. So, to get the 122 mm CG I would have had to add more lead to the tail. Not wanting to do that I will see how it performs at 118 mm. Anyone know if this CG placement is right?

I also had to add 1/2 oz to the right wing panel at the tip to get it to balance axially.

The other thing I found difficult is the linkage to the elevator (flying stab). It took me two hours to get the linkage hooked up right using their included push rod arrangement. It would have made life so much easier if they had just used the Sulivan braided wire and solder links or plain inner and outer nyrod would have worked as well. I recommend you buy the Sulivan braided wire pushrods and solder up some links and throw away their wire deal. That would make this job a half hour instead of two.

Being a pattern flyer I am also nuts about alignment. I found the flying stab to be 2 degrees out of level to the wings. The tube is molded in so there is no easy fix for that. The triangulation of the stab to the wing tips was pretty good.

Spring is about to spring here in southern Indiana so the maiden flight will happen within the next couple of weeks. I'll report on the performance then. I set up a DX9 with the sailplane config so I am looking forward to the English gal telling me "launch mode" and "Cruise mode", "thermal mode", "landing mode", and "speed mode".

So, does anyone have any experience with setting the CG on the Mystique? I am wondering if the manual is right. there are several errors in the manual. Like they state to move the CG back you add weight to the nose....wrong.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 04:55 PM
Registered User
Winnipeg, Canada
Joined Jul 2006
93 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbolz View Post
Just finished assembling the Mystique. I tried to use pretty much all of the included parts and pieces they recommended and here's my review and questions:

First my question: I found the plane to be nose heavy, not tail heavy as some of the reviews stated. I added a flight battery pack in lieu of the BEC and stuck it as far back as I could reach in the narrow fuse. I also moved the 4S pack (also recommended over a 3s for the extra weight, which you don't need) as far back as I could. It resides against the back of the elev and rud servos. That brought the CG pretty close to the manual stated 118 mm from the leading edge. To get that I had to add 1 oz to the tail. So, to get the 122 mm CG I would have had to add more lead to the tail. Not wanting to do that I will see how it performs at 118 mm. Anyone know if this CG placement is right?

I also had to add 1/2 oz to the right wing panel at the tip to get it to balance axially.

The other thing I found difficult is the linkage to the elevator (flying stab). It took me two hours to get the linkage hooked up right using their included push rod arrangement. It would have made life so much easier if they had just used the Sulivan braided wire and solder links or plain inner and outer nyrod would have worked as well. I recommend you buy the Sulivan braided wire pushrods and solder up some links and throw away their wire deal. That would make this job a half hour instead of two.

Being a pattern flyer I am also nuts about alignment. I found the flying stab to be 2 degrees out of level to the wings. The tube is molded in so there is no easy fix for that. The triangulation of the stab to the wing tips was pretty good.

Spring is about to spring here in southern Indiana so the maiden flight will happen within the next couple of weeks. I'll report on the performance then. I set up a DX9 with the sailplane config so I am looking forward to the English gal telling me "launch mode" and "Cruise mode", "thermal mode", "landing mode", and "speed mode".

So, does anyone have any experience with setting the CG on the Mystique? I am wondering if the manual is right. there are several errors in the manual. Like they state to move the CG back you add weight to the nose....wrong.
Bill... You didn't mention if you built this as a pure glider or an e-glider. Guessing an e-glider so thinking you've got a pretty big motor up front. I built mine for electric launch with an MVVS 4.6/840 motor. This meant that a 3000/3300 3S battery balanced it fine, no balast fwd. or aft. The recommended CG range is OK. Start at the 118 point and adjust to suit. As you get further aft with the CG remember there is a great big stab for pitch control. The amount of stab travel in the manual is loads. My CG is about 122mm and I have plenty of control with 7mm up and down stab plus a large amount of expo.
EK
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 05:56 PM
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gocary50's Avatar
United States, KY, Glasgow
Joined Jan 2014
21 Posts
I think I may have come across something that may be causing the flutter that some of us are having. Check the glue joint in the wing servo boxes where they glue to the ribs. As I was setting up the wings I noticed that the balsa skins were pulling away from the ribs a couple of mm. Don't know if that is the cause or not but it something that everyone should take a look at. With a small pin light looking through the covering as you move the control surfaces and you can see if the joints are loose and flexing.


Cary
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Old Mar 08, 2014, 09:04 PM
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moreno valley california
Joined Jun 2008
313 Posts
I was impatient on my maiden so in addition to a 3s 3300 I put in 5 cell sub c to balance. I have no idea where it balanced but it was quite nose heavy but flew fine - it just needed up trim. since then I have rebalanced it. it was a bit mushy at 121 so I kept small adding small amounts of weight until it tracked smoothly in turns. I will say it is easier to land with more nose weight. I would fly it with the 4s but no weight in the tail. re the tail linkage - I simply put a 90 degree in the wire and did not use the keeper. don't cut the wire and it works fine. just make sure it can move freely. i sure enjoy flying it. anyone in the area we have a great spot to fly out here...wide open with good lift.
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Old Mar 09, 2014, 03:09 AM
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botulism's Avatar
United States, MT, Kalispell
Joined Aug 2004
666 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gocary50 View Post
I think I may have come across something that may be causing the flutter that some of us are having. Check the glue joint in the wing servo boxes where they glue to the ribs. As I was setting up the wings I noticed that the balsa skins were pulling away from the ribs a couple of mm. Don't know if that is the cause or not but it something that everyone should take a look at. With a small pin light looking through the covering as you move the control surfaces and you can see if the joints are loose and flexing.

Cary
Oh wow, Cary I think you may be right. I never thought about that before. Flexing that much may very well be the source of the oscillation. I wonder if gluing a 1/16" plywood floor on top of the balsa top sheeting would stiffen it up enough to reduce or eliminate the flutter? Hopefully, there will still be enough room that the servos still fit.

--
Greg
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Old Mar 09, 2014, 08:04 AM
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gocary50's Avatar
United States, KY, Glasgow
Joined Jan 2014
21 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by botulism View Post
Oh wow, Cary I think you may be right. I never thought about that before. Flexing that much may very well be the source of the oscillation. I wonder if gluing a 1/16" plywood floor on top of the balsa top sheeting would stiffen it up enough to reduce or eliminate the flutter? Hopefully, there will still be enough room that the servos still fit.

--
Greg
Greg I ran my flap horn through the top of the wing and am going to use a 1/32 ply stiffener and glue it to the ribs and balsa skin. It now is capable of getting 68 deg of flaps. Just waiting for fairing to get here. Mobius came in and found this mount for it on Amazon.
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Old Mar 10, 2014, 09:53 PM
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United States, MT, Kalispell
Joined Aug 2004
666 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gocary50 View Post
Greg I ran my flap horn through the top of the wing and am going to use a 1/32 ply stiffener and glue it to the ribs and balsa skin. It now is capable of getting 68 deg of flaps. Just waiting for fairing to get here. Mobius came in and found this mount for it on Amazon.
Very cool, let us know the results.

Looking forward to some video from your Mobius.

--
Greg
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Old Mar 10, 2014, 10:22 PM
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United States, KY, Glasgow
Joined Jan 2014
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Originally Posted by botulism View Post
Very cool, let us know the results.

Looking forward to some video from your Mobius.

--
Greg
Will do Might be a month or so, have to finish the rest of the honey do house remodel first but I'll prob sneak out the first good day after it is finished.
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Old Mar 12, 2014, 11:22 AM
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Brazil Indiana
Joined Sep 2010
13 Posts
Mystique 2.9 CG reference - question

I have assembled a Mystique but have not flown it yet (southern Indiana, lousy weather). I am using the recommended Power 25 motor and a 4S 2600 lipo instead of the 3S 2600 they recomend so I could use the extra wieght instead of adding weight to the nose as some reviewers stated was needed. I found this arrangement to be quite nose heavy with the radio setup as recommended. I had trouble getting the CG back to the118mm as they spec in the manual. The 118mm puts the CG very close to the wing tube which kind of makes sense. To get the CG back to the 118 mm I had to add a regular 4.8v reciever nicad battery instead of using the BEC. I stuck the battery as far back as I could reach in the fuse behnd the reciever and the 4S 2600 lipo as far back as possible which is against the back of the two servos. This brought the CG close to the 118mm but I still had to add 1oz to the tail.

I also had to add 1/2oz lead to the right wing tip to get it to balance axially.

I am wondering if anyone else has had this CG issue and if the manual is right before I launch it on it's maiden flight without surprises.
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Old Mar 12, 2014, 11:32 AM
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Brazil Indiana
Joined Sep 2010
13 Posts
Mystique - electric

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekletke View Post
Bill... You didn't mention if you built this as a pure glider or an e-glider. Guessing an e-glider so thinking you've got a pretty big motor up front. I built mine for electric launch with an MVVS 4.6/840 motor. This meant that a 3000/3300 3S battery balanced it fine, no balast fwd. or aft. The recommended CG range is OK. Start at the 118 point and adjust to suit. As you get further aft with the CG remember there is a great big stab for pitch control. The amount of stab travel in the manual is loads. My CG is about 122mm and I have plenty of control with 7mm up and down stab plus a large amount of expo.
EK
Thanks for the reply. I'm using the recommended e-flite power 25 motor, a 60amp ESC, a 4S 2600 lipo and a separate 4.8v nicad for the reciever, only because I can't get the CG back far enough. Maybe I'll get a 3S 3000 and see how that works.

with the added 1 oz in the tail I got the CG back to the 118mm, but don't want to add any more weight. You have given me confidence that the maiden flight will not produce any surprises so as soon as the weather breaks here in Evansville Indiana, I'm going to give it a go. looks like an awesome glider can't wait to get it out there. I'll use your control throw rec for the stab with expo.
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Old Mar 12, 2014, 04:37 PM
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Winnipeg, Canada
Joined Jul 2006
93 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbolz View Post
Thanks for the reply. I'm using the recommended e-flite power 25 motor, a 60amp ESC, a 4S 2600 lipo and a separate 4.8v nicad for the reciever, only because I can't get the CG back far enough. Maybe I'll get a 3S 3000 and see how that works.

with the added 1 oz in the tail I got the CG back to the 118mm, but don't want to add any more weight. You have given me confidence that the maiden flight will not produce any surprises so as soon as the weather breaks here in Evansville Indiana, I'm going to give it a go. looks like an awesome glider can't wait to get it out there. I'll use your control throw rec for the stab with expo.
Bill...As you may have found out, battery weight varies quite a bit. The cell no.,amp capacity and C rating all have relation to weight. I use a 3S3300 at 9oz and another one at 9.5oz, the only difference is the heavier one is a higher C rating. I'm guessing your 4S2600 battery is between 8.5-9oz, So you may find a 3S3000 that is a little lighter, I have one that weighs 8oz. I weighed a 3S2800 at 7.2oz. Too light to balance my plane but may do it for you.Why not try to balance without the separate rx bat? Your tail light condition makes me think there may have been some production diffs making the tail lighter (good) as on mine it crossed my mind that building a lighter rudder and or stab might be a worthwhile project. I have 2 canopys that are more than 10gms different in weight so production diffs do exist. Hope to hear you've got out to try your Mystique soon. Looking out my window at 6 foot high snow drifts yet. Do your first test glides when then ground has thawed and softened.That lovely gel coat is prone to cracking on hard arrivals.
EK
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Old Mar 13, 2014, 07:06 PM
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dmoisuk's Avatar
Regina, Canada
Joined Sep 2010
144 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbolz View Post


I am wondering if anyone else has had this CG issue and if the manual is right before I launch it on it's maiden flight without surprises.
Do a test glide before you do a motor on launch.
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Old Mar 15, 2014, 08:37 AM
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timography's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Feb 2012
357 Posts
Had some fun with my Mystique today. There was a bit of lift around. Really good fun.
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Old Mar 15, 2014, 05:57 PM
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USA, Mt, Billings
Joined Mar 2009
332 Posts
Treated myself to a Mystique for the upcoming ALES season. Have spent the last two months or so acquiring all the "fixin's" to put this baby in the air. Down to about 5 weeks now until our club's first event so I got the kit out to get 'er put together.

First thing I noticed unpacking the kit is that the vertical stabilizer ain't vertical. Ain't even close. If I sight down the fuse from the nose and compare the vertical stabilizer to the wing saddle as a horizontal reference it is quite clear that the vertical stab is 5-ish degrees from vertical. This isn't something where you have to squint to tell, use any sort of measuring devices, etc...it is plainly visible to with the naked eye.

Are they all like this or did I get a crappy molding? This is going to hold the horizontal stab skewed to the wing also. I know any E-flite ARF I've ever put together they want to be damn sure I get the stabs just so or something terrible is going to happen, so I'm always VERY fussy about getting this straight. Kinda disappointed about this...

Thanks,

Scott
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