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Old Nov 07, 2013, 03:08 PM
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Great post DHG and you are exactly right! What I need to learn to do is instead of doing the usual pattern turns (after the timer sounds) with the downwind, base and final all with the nose down picking up speed the whole way. I need to go up and circle a bit letting it settle into that slower glide with the nose slightly up. If you let the nose down even a bit it picks up speed almost immediately! Tried some crabbing the last few flights and that does help. Next time will try the one wheel down first
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Old Nov 07, 2013, 11:45 PM
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Servo install

Couple of pics on the servo installs.

Also, I ran up the motor last weekend. On an old junk 4S (35-70C) nano-tech which sagged badly to under 12V under full power, I pulled 1340W at 107A on a 6.5x5 APC pylon prop and turned about 29K. I've ordered a new battery and we'll see how that improves the figures... I expect to be 31k+ on a decent battery. Ideally I'd like to be right up at 1500W, so will prop up or down to meet that (6.5x5, 6.5x5.5, 6.5x6). That works out to about 500W/lb. Thrust/weight should be in the range of 2.5:1 to 3:1, depending on prop. The best news... the motor ran extremely smoothly, no vibration, and the upgraded/larger diameter shaft that the Neu folks installed for me works out great!
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Old Nov 08, 2013, 08:40 AM
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What motor will you be using? Do you have it in the plane yet?
I'm getting ready to install a second servo in the wing with two of them side by side in order to get flaperons or spoilers whichever work the best!
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Old Nov 08, 2013, 10:40 AM
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It's s Neu 1115/1Y, 2800kV, installed and tested in the airplane. The shaft modification I mentioned upgraded the stock 3.2 mm shaft to 5 mm.

My initial plan was to go with two aileron servos as well. I'm sure that will help out on the landings. You can also try a tiny amount of flap/elevator mixing for pylon turns!
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Old Nov 08, 2013, 11:32 AM
DHG
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Rick,

It so happens I have an old QM15 Toni that I might want to convert, so I'm lurking intently here. That motor sounds great! I hope Mr. Neu will keep the recipe handy; he may sell a few more as time goes on.

Cheers,

Duane
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Old Nov 08, 2013, 04:40 PM
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Hi Duane,
You mean you have an already built Toni from back in the day? I want to see PICTURES!!

Converting one of the old planes would be a great project. I think there is probably enough room to fit the Neu 1115 or most any similar motor forward of the stock firewall location, too. Even if not, it would be pretty straightforward to rig a front mount plate. And Arctic was able to utilize the old nitro motor mount in his plane (cool!) and addressed cooling issues too. The Turbo-Cool spinner like I'm using can also get cool air right into the front of the motor. You even get to remove the old throttle servo (which, ahem, saves weight... before stuffing some gargantuan LiPo battery back in, that is...) And as much as I love the old QM15 nitro engines, you'll have way more power this way. What's not to like?
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Old Nov 08, 2013, 07:11 PM
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Waxing the Paint

Okay, Duane, you'll probably get on my case again but... more paint talk!

I was looking forward to waxing the paint, just to see if it would make any difference on the House of Kolor paints I've been so impressed with. And I knew it wouldn't be some all afternoon job like waxing the car always seems to be House of Kolor recommends you wait 60 days before applying any wax... and when you do, they recommend a carnauba wax. I did a little research into the various types of waxes and it looks like the basic choices are between carnauba-based waxes (carnauba being a natural product, the wax off the leaves of a certain tropical tree) and polymer-based products. The gist of what I picked up is that carnauba provides a greater depth of appearance and also has high breathability, said to be good; while polymers provide a more durable finish and a distinctly different look, said to be less warm. The polymer wax lasts six months to a year for auto applications compared to a couple of months, maybe, for carnauba. Interestingly too, even waxes touted as "pure carnauba" or similar are really only about 1/3 or so natural wax... the rest are additives to make the wax spreadable and usable, such as naptha. Kind of makes sense as the wax on tree leaves is hardly what you're going to put on your Vette.

I ended up purchasing a tin of Mother's carnauba wax at the local car parts store. I found the type that does not have any added polishing compound of any kind (which took me trips to three different parts stores to find!) I don't need the super longevity of a polymer wax and I do want to maximize depth. It only took about ten minutes to do the wing... just wipe on, let it haze over and buff off with a microfiber towel... and while the difference can't readily be captured on film, in person it makes a big difference. It really did bring up the depth, even remarkably so -- it made it look even darker and deeper. It's a great match with the kandy paint. And they say that with carnauba, the more coats you put on, the better it'll look. I don't know about that, but it looks great and feels like butter to the touch. And now that I have all this 'gear' I can use on the car, I'm (almost) looking forward to the next wash and wax
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Old Nov 10, 2013, 10:14 PM
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ESC log

I decided to fudge the battery issue for now by putting two old 4S batteries in parallel. None of my batteries by themselves could handle the current drawn by my configuration (which works out to about a 60C load for those batteries, by the way). Worked fine in parallel, though.

Here's a log from a brief static motor run this afternoon while I held the plane down. Max figures for the Neu on a 6.5x5 are 158A, 2052W, and 32,300 RPM This is even higher than calculated, although the power numbers would presumably come down in flight. Fun numbers for the little Toni!!

As high as those figures are, it's definitely pushing the envelope of both my Ice 100 controller and the ratings of the motor itself. I think this would be a great place to start, and monitor temps carefully. But there's plenty of room to play with cutting down the diameter with the same or increased pitch, which would allow me to play with static pitch speeds anywhere from the mid-150s to the high 190s. The main tradeoff will be how big a battery I want to use to get flight duration (and to handle the C load) versus battery weight. I'm looking at the 3300 mAh 70C ThunderPower G8 Pro as a good candidate.
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Old Nov 10, 2013, 10:28 PM
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impressive numbers, for sure.

Love that rear 3/4 view of the plane.. what superb craftsmanship!
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Old Nov 11, 2013, 09:22 AM
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Here is an F5B trick for batteries that just can't handle the drawl. If you don't care about the battery but do not want the ESC to cut out when you go to full throttle at static (launch) set the ESC for one cell below what you are using. However, do not use the ESC low voltage cutoff or you might have a fire. Use your timer on your radio.
I would fly for two minutes then land check battery % then fly some more and check again to figure out how much time I had. None of my ESC's are set to auto-lipo in the speed planes.
That plane will cook at those numbers...but your motor might as well if ventilation does not allow it enough air.
Consider a 36mm Mega or 40mm Neu motor if you find that the 1100series is getting hot.
I have a Neu 1515/1Y that is the best motor I have ever used! That motor has seen 260amps for 5second bursts many times and still is holding its kv well.
My 22/60 Mega has also held up to some high amp numbers and it remains to be seen how far I can push it....and will.
Oh Yeah what will your RTF weight be?
CAN'T WAIT TO SEE MAIDEN FLIGHT!
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Old Nov 11, 2013, 10:00 AM
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Oh yeah...I've got a 36mm typhoon I'll send you free of charge for testing if the smaller motor doesn't work out
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Old Nov 12, 2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzwater2 View Post
impressive numbers, for sure.

Love that rear 3/4 view of the plane.. what superb craftsmanship!
Thanks for all your great feedback and encouragement along the way, Fizz! The goal was to re-create the excitement of those sexy racers in the glossy pages of RCM back in the day, built using the traditional techniques but updated with the modern performance systems, and also to do a build log to illustrate almost every step. It's been a lot of fun to share this project.

But now... I'm preparing the next one! I've already stocked up on my carbon, laminating resin, and mylar sheets so I'll try something new
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Old Nov 12, 2013, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticflyer View Post
Oh yeah...I've got a 36mm typhoon I'll send you free of charge for testing if the smaller motor doesn't work out
WOW! Thanks for the offer, Arctic!! I like your ESC programming hints too, I had to reprogram min voltage and max amps to get a successful run.

I actually looked at the Neu 1515 at first for this project... I'm limited by the 1 3/4" outside diameter of the nose, but I think the 1515 would fit and I knew I wanted to be in the 1500W range. But that motor is very large... the 1515 weighs 15 ounces versus approximately 6 ounces for the 1115. BTW, the airplane is about 2 1/2 pounds w/o battery. The 36mm Typhoon looks like a great candidate too. It looks like it weighs only about 8 ounces but is rated for up to 3500W!!

Thanks again!
Rick
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Old Nov 12, 2013, 05:57 PM
DHG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjtw View Post
Hi Duane,
You mean you have an already built Toni from back in the day? I want to see PICTURES!!

Converting one of the old planes would be a great project ...
Rick,

This one's not that pretty, & it needs a lot of work. I'm not the original owner. But it is light. It actually came with two wings, both MonoKoted as I recall. I was toying with the idea of repowering it with a 3S x 2250 lipo and a Series 6 inrunner like what I used to replace the stock motor in my Stryker. I've done that once before with a QM15 model, and it worked OK. Nothing like what you've got in that Toni, of course, but I was turning an APC 6 x 4E at about 24K and seeing airspeed in the 100 mph range. It was actually a pretty good representation of the way these planes flew with Rossi .15s in them.

Thanks for the info on the wax. I still haven't followed up on your recommendation about the polisher, but I did print it out & may send it to the North Pole so Santa can peruse it for a couple of weeks.

Cheers,

Duane
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