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Old Nov 16, 2012, 12:43 AM
I'd rather be.....
geoffers0_0's Avatar
Bristol, UK
Joined Jun 2008
209 Posts
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Another "Intl. Sailplanes AXLE" (Wingeron) build thread

I've just managed to bag an Axle off fleaBay - a vintage design fromthe early 80's. It's a "wingeron" - twisty-wings for roll and AMT for pitch control (as opposed to a "pitcheron" where the h-stab is fixed)

My build thread now starts on Page 2>>>>

There are a fair number of threads on this model, but I would welcome any help and comments from anyone with knowledge of the Axle - particularly CofG; Throws; Incidence(decelage); do's & dont's etc

I was wondering whether it would be better to fix the h-stab and convert it to a pitcheron (using the wings for pitch as well. - I guess in the 80s the TXs probably didn't have the mixing capabilities of modern radio - hence the AMT)

Also, would it be worth setting up a pop-up canopy as an airbrake? (TWF planes can be difficult to stop) Any suggestions on setup?
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 03:34 AM
Phil.T-tailer
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Devon, UK
Joined Jun 2003
4,222 Posts
Good score there - I was very tempted - but not in yellow

I also wondered about going pitcheron - that tail mount looks pretty wobbly
Incidence - I'd set it up 0-0, then add a bit of up "elevator" before chucking it off the first time, trim it in the air as necessary

Phil.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 12:31 PM
I'd rather be.....
geoffers0_0's Avatar
Bristol, UK
Joined Jun 2008
209 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil.Taylor View Post
Good score there - I was very tempted - but not in yellow

I also wondered about going pitcheron - that tail mount looks pretty wobbly
Incidence - I'd set it up 0-0, then add a bit of up "elevator" before chucking it off the first time, trim it in the air as necessary

Phil.
Don't think it'll stay yellow for long : have read that the fuse was pretty weak (Polyester resin & chopped strand glass) so was thinking this could be a prime candidate for a carbon sock job, particularly as the fuse looks relatively slender.

Probably stick with it as a wingeron for now....
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 05:48 PM
Surf's up!!
sixty9mustang's Avatar
United States, Mt, East Helena
Joined Oct 2005
1,473 Posts
Axle

Hello geoffers0_0,

I figured more would have replied to this thread

I think the Axle is sexy beast. I have had mine 90% done for years. Have wanted to finish it and fly it, but we really don't have a great place to fly something like this around here. Our LZ's are extremely tough on slope planes.

According to the manual,

CofG is set at the center of the wing pivot rod

Throws for the wings are Trailing edge up 10mm down 6mm

Stabilator Trailing edge up 6mm down 6mm

Rudder 20mm both left and right.

It appears they are suggesting 0-0 incidence between wing and stabilator.

I hope this helps
Chip
I am enclosing a picture of mine in it's current state.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:31 AM
I'd rather be.....
geoffers0_0's Avatar
Bristol, UK
Joined Jun 2008
209 Posts
Thanks Chip - nice looking plane. I guess being unobtanium there aren't many owners out there now.

Do I see a larger rudder on yours? That is a mod I'm thinking of making. I'm also planning on sliding wing actuators rather than the original direct servo drive or cams http://www.windandwavemodels.com/Wingtwist.html
Will post some pics of the refurb as I progress: the AMT mount was broken, so I have replaced this with 10mm box section aluminium, and dug out the rudder post so I can replace the bowden cables with decent snakes. C/F sock has arrived, so that'll be next

Cheers, Geoff
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:21 AM
Surf's up!!
sixty9mustang's Avatar
United States, Mt, East Helena
Joined Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffers0_0 View Post
Thanks Chip - nice looking plane. I guess being unobtanium there aren't many owners out there now.

Do I see a larger rudder on yours? That is a mod I'm thinking of making. I'm also planning on sliding wing actuators rather than the original direct servo drive or cams http://www.windandwavemodels.com/Wingtwist.html
Will post some pics of the refurb as I progress: the AMT mount was broken, so I have replaced this with 10mm box section aluminium, and dug out the rudder post so I can replace the bowden cables with decent snakes. C/F sock has arrived, so that'll be next

Cheers, Geoff
Hey Geoff,

Thanks! Yes that is a larger rudder, um, years ago my wife knocked some stuff on to the plane and destroyed the rudder. So I built one, just a bit larger than stock. I used a fiberglass arrowshaft for the leading edge hinge line and Robart hinges. It has 3 ribs, 2 sheets of balsa and along the trailing edge is a small piece of 1/64th ply, to make it rigid and allow for super thin trailing edge.

If you want I can take pictures and post them for you.

I took a look at that wing twist mechanism, that is pretty nice! I have never been a fan of the system used on this Axle, so I may just have to change it.

And yes, I would love to see pics as you progress with your rebuild. You may just motivate me to finish mine It really doesn't need much from where it sits.

Thanks,
Chip
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:43 AM
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Brisbane, Australia
Joined Feb 2002
1,044 Posts
Nice timing - I'm just about to start building mine from a new-in-box kit (which is only about 25 years old )

The obechi wing skins have mostly delaminated from the foam cores, and I'm pondering how I go about fixing this - try to infuse some epoxy back under the skins, or strip off and glass/carbon skin them instead. Any suggestions ?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:06 AM
Deniable plausibility
Shedofdread's Avatar
Derbyshire, UK
Joined Aug 2008
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IIRC, the veneer was stuck on with Copydex (or similar contact adhesive) so if they haven't yet come off, it won't be long....

Might be quicker / easier to cut new cores.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:09 AM
Phil.T-tailer
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Devon, UK
Joined Jun 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffers0_0 View Post
Thanks Chip I'm also planning on sliding wing actuators rather than the original direct servo drive or cams http://www.windandwavemodels.com/Wingtwist.htmlCheers, Geoff
Now thats a neat idea for a slidy twisty mechanism
I've got some spare box/blade somewhere - Geoff, PM me if you'd like some of it

Phil.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:10 AM
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Brisbane, Australia
Joined Feb 2002
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Yeah, that was the other option, which I'll probably go with. Already got the cnc cutter warming up
So, what would be a good weight cloth for carbon skins ??
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:16 AM
Deniable plausibility
Shedofdread's Avatar
Derbyshire, UK
Joined Aug 2008
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160g/m2 but go steady with the epoxy. A layer of something thin (say 50g glass) on the outside should banish the pinholes.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 10:05 AM
Ninja Master
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United States, CA, Thousand Oaks
Joined Feb 2007
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I've got brand new Axle in the box too, and my skins have come off completely. In nowhere near ready to build it, but I was hoping to put the skins back on the cores somehow. I haven't looked at it in a while, but cutting new cores might be simpler than messing with the old ones.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:09 PM
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Hutch's Avatar
Roseville, California, United States
Joined Mar 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_S View Post
Nice timing - I'm just about to start building mine from a new-in-box kit (which is only about 25 years old )

The obechi wing skins have mostly delaminated from the foam cores, and I'm pondering how I go about fixing this - try to infuse some epoxy back under the skins, or strip off and glass/carbon skin them instead. Any suggestions ?
I have a kit that has the same deal with the wing skins. I wouldn't try to stick them back down without removing them completely because I figure what hasn't come loose will eventually (which means at the bottom of a loop).

I figure that I will eventually cut some now cores using a more modern airfoil, but I do have the original airfoil written down somewhere if I decide to stay true to historical form.

-hutch
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:13 PM
I'd rather be.....
geoffers0_0's Avatar
Bristol, UK
Joined Jun 2008
209 Posts
Excellent to see I've awoken the hibernating Axle owners - keep the posts coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixty9mustang View Post
..... So I built one, just a bit larger than stock. I used a fiberglass arrowshaft for the leading edge hinge line and Robart hinges. It has 3 ribs, 2 sheets of balsa and along the trailing edge is a small piece of 1/64th ply, to make it rigid and allow for super thin trailing edge.
Sounds like the way to go - bigger rudder but less weight. I've got some .5mm thick x 3mm carbon strip which would do just fine for the t/e - bought some Robarts at lunchtime too Will be able to build the rudder and post separate from the fuse, then install it as one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil.Taylor View Post
Now thats a neat idea for a slidy twisty mechanism
I've got some spare box/blade somewhere - Geoff, PM me if you'd like some of it
Phil: Not quite sure what you mean by "box/blade", but assuming you mean a sliding lid for a box. Many thanks for the offer - I'll PM you shortly.
I was thinking of making a self contained unit - think of a box made out of lite-ply, with PTFE rails & sliders, which I can install or remove as a unit. Have sourced some PTFE & glass filled PTFE samples for a fiver >here<

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_S View Post
The obechi wing skins have mostly delaminated from the foam cores, and I'm pondering how I go about fixing this - try to infuse some epoxy back under the skins, or strip off and glass/carbon skin them instead. Any suggestions ?
Hmmmm - mine look fine, but have a covering of (possibly) Solartex - so that could be hiding delaminated nastiness underneath. I think I'll leave them as they are at the moment.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:28 PM
Phil.T-tailer
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Devon, UK
Joined Jun 2003
4,222 Posts
Well the design here:
http://www.windandwavemodels.com/Wingtwist.html
uses steel wing joiner blade - sliding in the matching brass box - and its that joiner blade/box combination that I've got some spare - hope that now makes sense?

Phil.
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