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Old Oct 05, 2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
You are perfectly capable of determining such.

Many have stated that wide adoption of full sized EVs based upon electrochemical batteries is decades away, if ever. This has been countered that 'it's here now', and cost-competitive with IC. To me, this claim is preposterous, despite my desire for it to be true.
What you stated is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
Like many others who have posted to this thread, I am simply providing an oasis of reality in the ocean of fantasy that large scale adoption of EV is anywhere even remotely viable either economically or logistically.
So the question is:

What post(s) have specifically stated the contrary?

Now either those posts exist or I call BS.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 07:56 PM
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Call BS if it makes you feel better. I have better things to do with my time than to wade through the thread to placate you. Read through it and you will find what you're searching for, or perhaps not....
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
Call BS if it makes you feel better. I have better things to do with my time than to wade through the thread to placate you. Read through it and you will find what you're searching for, or perhaps not....
I call it as I see it.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 09:04 PM
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Ohmic,

So you don't remember and can't find, people in this thread that said that electric cars are a ready and viable alternative to IC cars?

Wow.
Step away from the bong. Things will start to come back.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TheWoodCrafter View Post
Ohmic,

So you don't remember and can't find, people in this thread that said that electric cars are a ready and viable alternative to IC cars?

Wow.
Step away from the bong. Things will start to come back.
Unable to quote the original statement? Perhaps you're the one who needs to step away. Let me help. The statement is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
Like many others who have posted to this thread, I am simply providing an oasis of reality in the ocean of fantasy that large scale adoption of EV is anywhere even remotely viable either economically or logistically.
So you can either reference those posts which specifically stated the contrary or you too can enjoy a free one-way ticket to BS island.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 09:52 PM
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You sure enjoy being confrontational.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Julez View Post
Well, even if they create the same amount of C02, I would like the exhaust fumes much more to be produced out of town and properly filtered, than being blown right into my face from the car before me.
Actually I would prefer the output from a modern combustion engine (almost entirely CO2, water and nitrogen) compared to that of a 50+ year old coal-fired power station.

The ash produced is also pretty nasty as you concentrate all the heavy (and radioactive) metals. The ash is actually more radioactive than some of the radioactive waste people get all worked up about (from the naturally occurring isotopes in the coal that are concentrated in the ash).
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 09:27 PM
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United States, WA, Puyallup
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Well, I guess I'll jump in with both feet.

The Nissan LEAF that replaced my Toyota van is an absolute joy to drive - it is fun, spirited, comfortable, and frugal. It serves me well for trips to the flying field (53 mi RT), shopping, doctor, dentist - you name it. If I were not so darn old, at 2 1/2 a mile for fuel and virtually no maintenance, I could recoup the premium I paid over the cost of a similar ICE vehicle. We (wife and I) do keep an ICE for extended trips or when we need separate vehicles, but the LEAF takes care of 90% of our transportation needs.

Of course, the battery degrades every cycle. But I expect to get a minimum of 60 miles at highway speeds for many years to come.

Certainly not for everyone, but it is working quite well for many, many folks.

The Chevy Volt is a fine automobile, and I thought of replacing the ICE with one, but since a second car is rarely needed, the purchase cost was a bit prohibitive. Lease terms are attractive, but not into leasing.

Bill
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 09:36 PM
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Bill, it is great to hear from someone that actually has an EV. Wish I could deal with that limited range. Here in LA, that will not get you from one side to the other. This might be good for a smaller city or population.

Harry
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 10:07 AM
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In doing the research for this thread, I found that the federal and state rebates on electric vehicles are ridiculous. So ridiculous that I will be leasing a Leaf later this week. The total monthly cost for a leaf (lease payment plus cost to charge) will be considerably cheaper than the total monthly cost (monthly depreciation plus gas) of my 2006 PT cruiser. That's not even taking into consideration the considerable amount that I've spent on maintenance on the PT. I have a 35 mile round trip commute, which is perfect for the leaf. Of course I have an IC vehicle for longer trips.

Battery life is a big consideration. Nissan seems to be deliberately vague about the cost of battery replacement. I've seen costs as scary as $28,800.00 ($600.00 per battery module, 48 modules), but that shouldn't be a problem in a 36 month lease.

Electric vehicles really aren't even close to being able to replace gas vehicles in my opinion, but if the government is willing to give me back $10,000.00 of the money I've paid in taxes, and exert pressure on vehicle manufacturers to make them sell electric vehicles cheap, how can I not take advantage of it.

The Leaf should handle 90-95% of my driving needs.

Dan
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TheWoodCrafter View Post
That is why the government is forcing the manufacturers to produce these cars and the buyers get government incentives to buy them.
They just aren't a wise purchase financially.
You are correct, anytime the government has to help pay for something its due to it being a bad idea, ie windfarms,ethanol plants,chevy volt, solar power companies, if they were good ideas, they wouldnt need to be subsidized using tax payers money.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Baldwin View Post
In doing the research for this thread, I found that the federal and state rebates on electric vehicles are ridiculous. So ridiculous that I will be leasing a Leaf later this week. The total monthly cost for a leaf (lease payment plus cost to charge) will be considerably cheaper than the total monthly cost (monthly depreciation plus gas) of my 2006 PT cruiser. That's not even taking into consideration the considerable amount that I've spent on maintenance on the PT. I have a 35 mile round trip commute, which is perfect for the leaf. Of course I have an IC vehicle for longer trips.

Battery life is a big consideration. Nissan seems to be deliberately vague about the cost of battery replacement. I've seen costs as scary as $28,800.00 ($600.00 per battery module, 48 modules), but that shouldn't be a problem in a 36 month lease.

Electric vehicles really aren't even close to being able to replace gas vehicles in my opinion, but if the government is willing to give me back $10,000.00 of the money I've paid in taxes, and exert pressure on vehicle manufacturers to make them sell electric vehicles cheap, how can I not take advantage of it.

The Leaf should handle 90-95% of my driving needs.

Dan
Congratulations, Dan! Let us know how you like it. If you don't mind me asking, what's the mileage cap on the lease? Also, how long does it take to get the 220v charger installed? Can you charge off of 110v in the meantime?
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Ohmic View Post
Congratulations, Dan! Let us know how you like it. If you don't mind me asking, what's the mileage cap on the lease? Also, how long does it take to get the 220v charger installed? Can you charge off of 110v in the meantime?
The lease is based on 12,000 miles/year, which is what I drove last year after I took out the long trips I took in my PT. I think it takes a week or two to get the 220v charger installed if you do it the way Nissan wants you to. Since I will only be using about 50% of the range of the Leaf, I should be able to get by with the 110v charger. It takes 20 hours for a full charge, so I should be able to recharge in about 10. If I have to, I can charge at home and at work, but that shouldn't be necessary. At some point I may get the 220v charger installed, but I'll try it on the 110v charger to begin with.

Part of the reason that the Leaf is so attractive is that I found out that my electric company (Southern California Edison) offers special late night rates for owners of electric vehicles.

By this time next week I should be driving a CPSRV (coal powered short range vehicle)

Dan
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 11:47 AM
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United States, WA, Puyallup
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That is great news, Dan. Yes, lease deals on the LEAF (and the Volt) are getting quite good. I'm quite sure you will enjoy driving the LEAF.

You are probably aware that for about $300 you can get the supplied EVSE upgraded to charge with a 240 volt supply, but that may not be practical for a lease. And, with such a short commute, 120 volt should work great, even allow side trips on the way to or from.
www.evseupgrade.com

Welcome aboard the EV train.

Bill
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 12:09 PM
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Germany
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I love the Leaf. I was driving one at a local EV exhibition a month or 2 ago, and it was a blast. Absolutely linear acceleration, truly a futuristic feeling.
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