HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Feb 08, 2012, 12:19 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
12,465 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dittsboylogan View Post
I called it. I'm sure we'll see a ultra micro icon a-5. Haha just came to mind randomly. Also I'm hearing tons of complaints of the brushed motors. There is no issu with them!!! They're cheaper, can last a long time, don't need super powerful batteries, and Ive never had any issues. When I was into airhogs I had a sharpshooter for about a year and a half until it got attacked by a dog, and even with their low quality I never had an issue with any of the motors. My mcp s has over 300 flights on the stock brushed motor. No issue here. It's just e-flute makes model that everybody wants that have brushless and barge more from hem. I think e-flits should make their umx's to have the option of a brushed motors to make them cheaper. Just my honest opinion on brushed motors.
A brushed motor option isn't practical on the 2s UMX planes. First off, a brushed motor of similar weight would be far too underpowered for the task. If they used a brushed motor with the same power as the 180 brushless, the CG would be way off - due to the large increase in weight. How would they deal with the dramatic CG change without adding dead-weight? We surely don't want them to add dead-weight to a micro.

Not sure where you got the idea that brushed motors don't need powerful batteries. Actually, the opposite is usually true. Brushed motors are usually less efficient than brushless motors. To do the same amount of work, brushed motors usually require more from the battery, as compared to a well-designed brushless motor/ESC. The weight of an entire brushed power-package (including battery) will usually be considerably greater than the weight of a brushless power-package with similar output.

Joel
turboparker is online now Find More Posts by turboparker
RCG Plus Member
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 08, 2012, 05:49 PM
The Sweet Aroma of 92 Octane
electricrc68's Avatar
United States, PA, Downingtown
Joined May 2011
4,411 Posts
i know that it isn't out yet, but anyone want to make a guess at how much wind this thing will be able to handle? im going to guess somewhere around 10-12mph.
electricrc68 is offline Find More Posts by electricrc68
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 08, 2012, 06:07 PM
Kit Manufacturer
coreman's Avatar
United States, MA, Southbridge
Joined Feb 2010
3,577 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricrc68 View Post
i know that it isn't out yet, but anyone want to make a guess at how much wind this thing will be able to handle? im going to guess somewhere around 10-12mph.
That is what the AS3X is supposed to do for you, smooth out the bumps a gust of wind causes. and that seems to be the range people mention
coreman is offline Find More Posts by coreman
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: And into the winter season...
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 08, 2012, 06:52 PM
The Sweet Aroma of 92 Octane
electricrc68's Avatar
United States, PA, Downingtown
Joined May 2011
4,411 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreman View Post
That is what the AS3X is supposed to do for you, smooth out the bumps a gust of wind causes. and that seems to be the range people mention
oh okay cool thanks! yeah i thought that range was just about right.
electricrc68 is offline Find More Posts by electricrc68
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 08, 2012, 07:57 PM
Fly, be free! (splat)
United States, CA, Danville
Joined Jan 2008
1,392 Posts
More on brushed vs brushless

As much as I like brushless and the lack of a gearbox, for lightweight 1S you really need a gearbox for the best performance - a direct drive brushless just can't compete with the geared drive. So, in addition to the 1S brushed hitting a lower price point, you also get better lightweight performance.

What I plan to do is run this plane until there is a problem with the stock motor and then install a small 2S brushless system (assuming the receiver still has a brushless mode like the AR6400 - it looks like it does in the photo). The cost will go way up, but that's OK. It would, however, mean changing to a 2-blade prop ; maybe I'll look into the solo-pro brushed motor replacements after all. (I have a 2S UM mustang that is an absolute blast. )
jdwolters is offline Find More Posts by jdwolters
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 08, 2012, 09:25 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
12,465 Posts
Regarding wind-handling - I've flown my Sukhoi XP in 15+ MPH winds. Wasn't fun at all, but it was doable. I was running a 5043 prop & a top-quality battery, since the stock XP can barely break 15 MPH in level flight. Many of us fly the AS3X-equipped Beast 3D in gusty 20 MPH winds - and it is still great fun! That's definitely not the case with the V1 beast. It's a major handful in anything above about 15 MPH - especially if it's gusty.

As-equipped, the UM P-51 is notoriously poor in anything stronger than a light breeze. Not only does she get battered around, she lacks the speed to make decent headway in winds above 10 MPH or so. A 5043 prop & a quality 25c battery allow her to make headway in light to moderate breezes, but the undercambered wing simply hates gusts & turbulence. If, without AS3X, the Spit would behave similarly to the P-51 in the wind, the system will likely get a good workout trying to force that u/c wing to behave in gusty or turbulent conditions. From what I've experienced with flying the B3D, mCP X, and mQX in stronger breezes, I have no doubt that AS3X will be up to the task.

The Spit will surely handle gusts & turbulence far better than any of the current 1s UM planes. The limiting factor in the wind will most likely be her top speed - not the system's capability.

I have a blast flying the B3D in moderate to strong winds - doing stationary aerobatics, flying 'backwards', and shooting zero-length touch & gos. But with the Spit, I'd rather be rolling her over into a dive to set up for a screaming, high-speed strafing pass down on the deck @ war emergency power. Or shooting scale touch & gos - with a few scale takeoffs, approaches, and landings thrown in. My primary interest in AS3X in this application is having a UM warbird that flies more scale-like.

How much wind will the Spit handle while remaining enjoyable to fly in a scale-like manner with the scale prop? I'm guessing 8-10 MPH.

Joel
turboparker is online now Find More Posts by turboparker
RCG Plus Member
Old Feb 08, 2012, 11:55 PM
Erich Parkmann
United States, CA, Sacramento
Joined Jan 2012
114 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Regarding wind-handling - I've flown my Sukhoi XP in 15+ MPH winds. Wasn't fun at all, but it was doable. I was running a 5043 prop & a top-quality battery, since the stock XP can barely break 15 MPH in level flight. Many of us fly the AS3X-equipped Beast 3D in gusty 20 MPH winds - and it is still great fun! That's definitely not the case with the V1 beast. It's a major handful in anything above about 15 MPH - especially if it's gusty.

As-equipped, the UM P-51 is notoriously poor in anything stronger than a light breeze. Not only does she get battered around, she lacks the speed to make decent headway in winds above 10 MPH or so. A 5043 prop & a quality 25c battery allow her to make headway in light to moderate breezes, but the undercambered wing simply hates gusts & turbulence. If, without AS3X, the Spit would behave similarly to the P-51 in the wind, the system will likely get a good workout trying to force that u/c wing to behave in gusty or turbulent conditions. From what I've experienced with flying the B3D, mCP X, and mQX in stronger breezes, I have no doubt that AS3X will be up to the task.

The Spit will surely handle gusts & turbulence far better than any of the current 1s UM planes. The limiting factor in the wind will most likely be her top speed - not the system's capability.

I have a blast flying the B3D in moderate to strong winds - doing stationary aerobatics, flying 'backwards', and shooting zero-length touch & gos. But with the Spit, I'd rather be rolling her over into a dive to set up for a screaming, high-speed strafing pass down on the deck @ war emergency power. Or shooting scale touch & gos - with a few scale takeoffs, approaches, and landings thrown in. My primary interest in AS3X in this application is having a UM warbird that flies more scale-like.

How much wind will the Spit handle while remaining enjoyable to fly in a scale-like manner with the scale prop? I'm guessing 8-10 MPH.

Joel
What battery are you using?
ArticWolf is offline Find More Posts by ArticWolf
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 09, 2012, 12:10 AM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,839 Posts
Geared inrunner motors are more effecient that BL outrunner motor but most stronly prefer the lower maintaince of outrunners. gear boxs can be a PITA.

brushed motor suck compared to brushless motors. Those who fly a brushed motor powered aircraft for hundreds of flights on a single motor do so at very low power levels and those who fly them for years fly very little.

I have many brushed motors that are over twenty years old that are same as new and in fact some are brand new.

A brushless setup even an outrunner one is atleast twice as effecient,weight half as much and will last hundreds if not thousands of flights and I am refering to hard aerobatic and 3D style flying not just floating around and doing lazy circles in the sky.

I flew brushed Astro Flite Colbalt motors for years. They were the best available and even geared they were so far behind even a cheap HK ineffeciient outrunner brushless that it is not funny.



Charles
everydayflyer is offline Find More Posts by everydayflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 09, 2012, 01:46 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
12,465 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArticWolf View Post
What battery are you using?
I use Hyperions. I'm running Hyp 240 mAh flat-pack cells in the XP. With the 5043 prop, she can climb ~300 feet straight up right from takeoff. The best thing is that she can still do that 5 minutes into the flight.

Joel
turboparker is online now Find More Posts by turboparker
RCG Plus Member
Old Feb 09, 2012, 06:34 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2005
1,978 Posts
I think doing the warbirds with a brushed motor and 1S lipo setup is the right comprimise to keep the size in ultra micro. Otherwise, you are looking at a "mini" plane like the new Carbon Cub which is going to be awesome, just not "ultra micro!"
tclaridge is offline Find More Posts by tclaridge
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 09, 2012, 09:00 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
12,465 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tclaridge View Post
I think doing the warbirds with a brushed motor and 1S lipo setup is the right comprimise to keep the size in ultra micro. Otherwise, you are looking at a "mini" plane like the new Carbon Cub which is going to be awesome, just not "ultra micro!"
The Beast 3D & Sbach are most definitely in the UM class, so Horizon could easily do a 2s brushless ultra-micro warbird if they wanted to. I don't particularly like using 150-year-old technology in my planes when there is a far more efficient & far longer-lasting option available.

Joel
turboparker is online now Find More Posts by turboparker
RCG Plus Member
Old Feb 09, 2012, 09:03 PM
Registered User
brushless55's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Nov 2011
4,048 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tclaridge View Post
I think doing the warbirds with a brushed motor and 1S lipo setup is the right comprimise to keep the size in ultra micro. Otherwise, you are looking at a "mini" plane like the new Carbon Cub which is going to be awesome, just not "ultra micro!"
I dig the idea bro!
and also it helps others get into the HOBBY!
and isn't this what its all about... lower prices to help others try out the hobby
brushless55 is offline Find More Posts by brushless55
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 09, 2012, 09:05 PM
The Sweet Aroma of 92 Octane
electricrc68's Avatar
United States, PA, Downingtown
Joined May 2011
4,411 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
The Beast 3D & Sbach are most definitely in the UM class, so Horizon could easily do a 2s brushless ultra-micro warbird if they wanted to. I don't particularly like using 150-year-old technology in my planes when there is a far more efficient & far longer-lasting option available.

Joel
well the thing with that is there may be a price jump which i wouldn't like much at all! the reason i like the parkzone ones is their price point. if their price jumps then i can't justify buying them anymore. so in my opinion, the brushed stuff is fine.
electricrc68 is offline Find More Posts by electricrc68
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 09, 2012, 09:10 PM
Registered User
brushless55's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Nov 2011
4,048 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricrc68 View Post
well the thing with that is there may be a price jump which i wouldn't like much at all! the reason i like the parkzone ones is their price point. if their price jumps then i can't justify buying them anymore. so in my opinion, the brushed stuff is fine.
I agree man...
some just want to play at the park with minimal cash
brushless55 is offline Find More Posts by brushless55
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 09, 2012, 09:11 PM
The Sweet Aroma of 92 Octane
electricrc68's Avatar
United States, PA, Downingtown
Joined May 2011
4,411 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brushless55 View Post
I agree man...
some just want to play at the park with minimal cash
you got that right! im one of those people.
electricrc68 is offline Find More Posts by electricrc68
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Product E-flite UMX MiG 15 Ducted Fan Jet with AS3X Bowerz Micro Ready-to-Fly 139 Nov 03, 2014 05:46 PM
Article Horizon Hobby Blade mQX Micro Quad-Copter with AS3X RTF & BNF Review Michael Heer Multirotor Talk 30 Feb 22, 2013 09:47 AM
New Product E-Flite UMX Mig 15 with AS3X! Bowerz Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 4 Jan 16, 2012 08:02 PM
Discussion UMX S-Bach or Beast 3d (with AS3X)? The Spirit 3D Foamies 6 Jan 07, 2012 06:41 AM
Sold Eflite UMX Beast 3D BNF with AS3X Technology baddb1 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 3 Dec 19, 2011 06:42 AM