SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 18, 2012, 05:00 PM
I-404 "shi no tenshi"
Joined Oct 2012
3 Posts
Help!
I-400 Problems

Hey guys,

Working on my 1/144 I-400 for model rc combat and I've run into a few problems and was wondering if I could tap into some of your guys insight/expertise. First off let me say this is the most complicated build I've ever undertaken having only built 5 ships, 3 surface combat vessels and 2 1/72 hobby subs not used for rc combat my problems are as follows.

1. Armored sub driver: If you are not familiar with rc warship combat it's basically model warships with balsa wood sheets over fiberglass skeleton hulls driving around in a pond shooting each other with bb cannons it's wicked fun. I'm looking for a material to encase my sub driver in that's light yet bb proof the fps on the bb's is very low but i still don't want to chance a bb piercing my sub driver

2. Periscope system: what i'm looking for is a periscope system that can raise and lower either air or electric but size is the biggest concern saw a really neat one for a 1/72 gato but unfortunately i have about a quarter of the size to work with. If any of you know where i could find plans or even buy one though i'd rather scratch build please let me know.

3. Submerged Navigation: this one has always been a tricky devil even for my hobby subs I came up with a very primitive way to navigate underwater using a heading finder (or at least that's what I call it) that I salvaged off a friends sub using a laptop it gives me my direction in degrees I also have a calculation for speed which is 28sec/100 per MWC rules using a sensor for speed as well I can make very rough estimations of where I'll end up using a map of the pond which my friend scaled down for me. This system is very crude yet probably very close to what the real I-400 skippers used lol. I'm looking for a way to modernize it or make it more efficient. Gps is way too unreliable as the pond is very small and the margin of difference on the gps is very large at least to my needs anyway. I need a pinpoint accurate system to accurately map my location but i don't think one exists and if it does it's probably way out of my price range. I'm all ears to any suggestions or ways to improve my system.

3. Torpedoes: More of an afterthought but I was wondering of a way to make a multiple launch torpedo system that's small enough to fit in a 1/144 scale model 33 in in length with a beam of less than 3in. The torpedoes would have to be small as well I could make them bigger than scale within reason max of about 4.5 inch long with maybe less than an inch wide. I have a bb cannon for my 1-400 but it would be so much better to have torpedo's .

Sorry if my post was a book lol thanks for your guys time and consideration I would really appreciate any help or advice you guys could send my way. The I-400 is currently under construction with the hull finished and sub driver about 50% complete will post some pics when I make a little more headway

Thanks,

York
I400 Skipper is offline Find More Posts by I400 Skipper
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 18, 2012, 07:10 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2010
25 Posts
What some wonderful questions! I like your ideas of all these things going on in this 144 model.
My, my! GPS, torpedoes, cameras, guns and moving periscopes, sounds like a fascinating project.

You ought to give David Merryman a call, I'll bet he'll be able to give you some tips and point you in the right direction. He's over on that subdriver site - I forget the URL. Anyone? Anyone?

Let us know how you get on!
thunderguts is offline Find More Posts by thunderguts
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:33 AM
Registered User
Philippines
Joined Jan 2005
826 Posts
Google search sub driver forum.
redboat219 is online now Find More Posts by redboat219
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2012, 02:56 PM
Registered User
tchalfant's Avatar
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Aug 2011
430 Posts
Skipper,
That is a very ambitious project. You are trying to pack a lot into a very small sub. A very wise man once said to me - crawl, walk, then run (there may have been some explicative added in there). What he meant is if this is your first sub, get just the basic sub portion done - get it to dive and more importantly rise again. Then move forward with adding other functions. Trust me there will be enough headaches just doing that.
I have seen so many with very high goals and wanting to pack so much into their subs that they compound the frustration and quit. Just getting it to dive and have proper trim and rise will be a challenge in 144th scale. I am NOT saying it cannot be done. You might be the one individual that can do it, I do not know.
tchalfant is online now Find More Posts by tchalfant
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:34 PM
I-404 "shi no tenshi"
Joined Oct 2012
3 Posts
tchalfant,

Thanks for the advice and you are right this is a very ambitious project as well as costly and I intend to look before I leap. If things don't work out I'll be satisfied with a 1-400 hobby sub or at worst a beautiful model. if she never dives or even worse dives but never comes back up I'll be content with the knowledge I gave a good go of it lol.
I400 Skipper is offline Find More Posts by I400 Skipper
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:05 PM
I-404 "shi no tenshi"
Joined Oct 2012
3 Posts
thunderguts,

I'm not putting gps on my sub gps has way to much variation to effectively use for navigation (1-10) meters in ideal conditions but probably closer to (30-50). Plus gps is very expensive I'm looking to build this sub without breaking my bank too much. I'm probably going to scuttle the camera system off my gato for my I-400. As far as the torpedo's and cannon go it's either one or the other I can't have both.The torpedo's are an after thought something to play with once I get everything else working like tchalfant said. As far as Mr. Merryman goes I sent him an email and am waiting to hear back. I wish he made a subdriver for an I-400 it would make my life so much easier lol.
I400 Skipper is offline Find More Posts by I400 Skipper
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:49 PM
Shanghai'd Expat
herrmill's Avatar
Xiaoshan, China
Joined Jun 2006
4,581 Posts
That's Mr. Meriman but he has been known at times to be a merry man. You might want to inquire if his 2.5" Gato Sub-Driver™ will work on your build - you should have enough space for one.

http://www.sub-driver.com/sub-driver...ub-driver.html

Didn't Tachikaze who build one? You'll want to contact him since he's well experienced with combat subs.

BTW, you'll find the The Sub Drivers Forum at http://forum.sub-driver.com
herrmill is offline Find More Posts by herrmill
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 10:38 AM
Registered User
evildave42's Avatar
United States, GA, Duluth
Joined Jul 2009
55 Posts
Well, since I got into subs and boats I've been looking into the combat too.

As far as armored WTC, could you not use sevral layers of heavy fiberglass shaped to sit on top of the WTC with some foam tape between? That would likely be plenty of armor from surface attacks

I've been reserching this myself and I'm a little unclear as to the rules for subs. You primairaly use a BB cannon, is this deck mounted like a turrent or is this mounted in the bow with a contact trigger (firing sorta like a torpedo when you ram them)?
evildave42 is offline Find More Posts by evildave42
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 07:58 AM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2009
75 Posts
Why don't you make WTC from aluminium pipe? That would be armoured for bb projectiles and won't increase weight compared with normal lexan tube.
u552 is offline Find More Posts by u552
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 10:58 AM
Registered User
evildave42's Avatar
United States, GA, Duluth
Joined Jul 2009
55 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by u552 View Post
Why don't you make WTC from aluminium pipe? That would be armoured for bb projectiles and won't increase weight compared with normal lexan tube.
In the right thickness that would be nearly impenetrable, although, are there any rules reguarding the materials used in the construction? I suppose an aluminum tube could be considered a ricochet hazzard, or it might be prohibited as it might offer an unfair armor advantage.

Without some well defined rules for combat subs, its hard to tell how it should be constructed or armed. Is there some universally recognized rulebook for this that includes details on arm and armoring subs?
evildave42 is offline Find More Posts by evildave42
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 02:19 PM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Frenchtown
Joined Mar 2003
9,075 Posts
As I recall

All the expensive operational gear SHOULD BE PROTECTED AGAINST BB & water damage.

BBs must be able to completly go thru the Balsa sheeted hull. The hull MUST SINK.
cyclops2 is online now Find More Posts by cyclops2
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:51 AM
Crazy bubble-head!
Nemo's Avatar
United States, FL, Naples
Joined Mar 2004
186 Posts
Make the cylinder from polycarbonate. Its clear, tough and readily available. Best of all it will let you check the operational status of your gear at a glance.

As to sinking, that's an interesting one. A wet-hull sub does not rely on the hull for keeping the water out. Its just there for cosmetics and hydrodynamics. You'd probably need to skin the inside and use at least a portion as a watertight area that floods when damaged. That will take up room for all your fun toys (torps, etc), making this an even more challenging build.

Perhaps you could rig up a trigger to the inside of the hull that would, when breached, vent your tank and sink your boat? That way once you're sunk you can just throw a toggle, blow your ballast and return to the surface for recovery...
Nemo is offline Find More Posts by Nemo
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 09:42 AM
Registered User
evildave42's Avatar
United States, GA, Duluth
Joined Jul 2009
55 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
Make the cylinder from polycarbonate. Its clear, tough and readily available. Best of all it will let you check the operational status of your gear at a glance.

As to sinking, that's an interesting one. A wet-hull sub does not rely on the hull for keeping the water out. Its just there for cosmetics and hydrodynamics. You'd probably need to skin the inside and use at least a portion as a watertight area that floods when damaged. That will take up room for all your fun toys (torps, etc), making this an even more challenging build.

Perhaps you could rig up a trigger to the inside of the hull that would, when breached, vent your tank and sink your boat? That way once you're sunk you can just throw a toggle, blow your ballast and return to the surface for recovery...
Well, perhaps insted of using foam to add boyancy to the upper portion of the sub you could use air filled compartments instead. They are already at the waterline and are penetratable. When enough are holed, the sub sinks, and to repair, just blow the water out and patch the hole. One problem might be how this effects trim though, a leaking bow compartment could make the sub uncontrolabel after one hit, even if it does not sink.
Again the only problem with this that I can think of is if rules prohibit that type of construction, tho I can't imagine why as long as you can sink it.

A better idea might be to build it LIKE a wet hull sub, but make it a dry hull, as it leaks it is still controlable, but this would mean lot of extra ballast to fight the boyancy. Also easy to repair.
evildave42 is offline Find More Posts by evildave42
Last edited by evildave42; Dec 07, 2012 at 09:45 AM. Reason: correction
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 03:02 PM
Registered User
evildave42's Avatar
United States, GA, Duluth
Joined Jul 2009
55 Posts
Just thought of a cool recovery method (assuming there is enough room). The WTC has its own boyancy, most subs are equiped with a failsafe or failsafe/auto-leveler if the radio signal is lost for 5 seconds.
The keel of the sub can be made of lead, acting as the primary ballast, when the failsafe is triped, a pico-servo pulls out a pin that holds the keel on, a small spring ensures separation. If ballanced correctly, the boyancy of the WTC will carry the sub to the surface even with the "dry" hull flooded.
You keep two or three of theses keels on hand and join the next round!
evildave42 is offline Find More Posts by evildave42
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2012, 04:53 PM
Registered User
tchalfant's Avatar
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Aug 2011
430 Posts
When I get around to editing more of the 1990 SubPac meeting, they go into greater depth using a droppable keel weight. Mike Dory used this system on his earlier subs. Some variations are wrapping fishing line on the weight to recover sub and weight. Skip Assay would not recommend the string because simply if your boat is deeper than your string length.....
tchalfant is online now Find More Posts by tchalfant
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion blade 400 servo problem Joshheli Mini Helis 5 Jul 08, 2012 02:08 AM
Help! Blade 400 servo problems Joshheli Mini Helis 2 Jul 02, 2012 04:21 AM
Discussion E-flte park 400 720kv problem palousercflyer Power Systems 1 Jun 11, 2012 12:39 AM
Discussion Blade 400 problems drsquat Electric Heli Talk 5 Apr 04, 2012 11:38 PM
Discussion Hobbypartz Optima 400 Compared to E-flite 400? E-reevo Power Systems 5 Feb 29, 2012 07:12 PM