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Old Mar 07, 2012, 05:24 PM
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jan 2009
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Sample Pilots' Meeting Notes

These are the Pilots' Meeting Notes that cover the key items that contestants should know when flying ALES. Some are specific to our field, but feel free to use this as a template and make any changes you require.

if there are crucial items that you think should be added, please bring them up here.
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Last edited by awilmunder; Mar 09, 2012 at 11:17 PM. Reason: New Rev of document
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 08:51 AM
Red Merle ALES
Curtis Suter's Avatar
United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
5,801 Posts
Quote:
There will be zero points awarded for the round if a plane’s motor is restarted after the initial 30 second run. Timers may ask pilot to demonstrate the plane’s motor controls. We use the honor system here.
This is quoted from the Word document that was attached.

Once the motor is shut off any other restart of the motor at any time should result in a zero flight. Example: I launch for a 10 second motor run, turn the motor off, the CAM will reset in approximately three seconds then I can restart the motor and it'll run for another 30 seconds (43 seconds after original launch) or the preset altitude; such as 200m. The altitude won't change because the CAM was originally turned on at field elevation.

So if I have a plane that has trouble making 200m in 30 seconds this would be a way to accomplish it and as per the briefing it would be legal. Perhaps that's the point now that I write it. Hmm. Interesting thought to level the field.

Also, if you have folks flying on 72Mhz that would be something to ask as well to avoid frequency conflicts.

Looks great! Thanks for posting.

Curtis
Montana
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 05:26 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,501 Posts
Restarting the motor for any reason is not legal... It says after the initial run.... not within 30 seconds.
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 05:57 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,501 Posts
This rule has dire consequences.

Every now and then I'll have a bad launch... in which case I will immediately abort the climb and cut the motor.

Since I have mine on a switch and it's very high power, cutting the motor is sometimes the only option to save the plane.
Doing a full powered loop or a turn and burn, will destroy my air frame.

It would be similar to a pop off on a winch.
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 07:50 PM
AMA7224 LSF1832
Leadchucker's Avatar
United States, DE, Seaford
Joined Sep 2008
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Might be a good thing to bring up the difference in timing the flight for those coming from TD or anyone unfamiliar with it's workings.
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 10:37 PM
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jan 2009
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I have updated my document to read....

There will be zero points awarded for the flight if a plane’s motor is restarted after the initial run.
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 11:18 PM
Play loud, Fly high
Gil Gauger's Avatar
Vincennes,IN USA
Joined Apr 2007
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Pilots meeting

Take it from an OLD CD, you must cover the " If a rabid (insert animal name) bites me on the ankle do I get a reflight?" issue.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 09:49 AM
ground penetration specialist
Nathan Schmoekel's Avatar
USA, MI, Grand Rapids
Joined Apr 2007
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I also have my motor on a switch... I have flown in two local contests and in each I had to let off the switch to avoid climbing into a slower plane. I don't feel a zero flight should result because I prevented a midair.

The timer on the field should have the call... he has the 30 second clock. Anything inside the timekeeper's 30 second climb-out window should be allowed. Like you said the altimeter is still going to cut you off properly based on ground altitude.


This is right from the nats rules....
"At the end of the motor run (30 seconds or 200 meters whichever comes first), no other activation of the motor is permitted for the remainder of the flight"

Bottom line is that the timekeeper's 30 second count is what matters NOT the built in electronic cut-off.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 11:01 AM
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
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I was giving a demonstration using a slow plane that can probably hit 150 meters on a good day. Another pilot had just finished his new glider and was still getting the kinks out. We did a 10-second countdown and I launched and slowly began my climb and about at about the 10-second mark the other pilot, a friend, started his. Unfortunately he had a switch set that would disable his rudder, so during his climb he was swinging wildly back and forth trying to figure out his control issue and I could do nothing but putter along while his rocket with a lawn-mower blade on the front was chewing through the air behind me. All I could do was stay the course and wait until he eventually passed by, but it was a terrible feeling.

Based on this experience, I now highly recommend that faster planes launch immediately and slower planes wait a bit. A rocket that climbs 200 meters in 20 seconds will put 10 meters between itself and a plane waiting waiting on the ground every second.

Landings are another matter especially if there is a shorter task that most pilots can fly and every plane is jockeying to enter their landing corridor simultaneously.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 11:35 AM
Registered User
Okanagan Falls. British columbia. Canada
Joined Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awilmunder View Post
I was giving a demonstration using a slow plane that can probably hit 150 meters on a good day. Another pilot had just finished his new glider and was still getting the kinks out. We did a 10-second countdown and I launched and slowly began my climb and about at about the 10-second mark the other pilot, a friend, started his. Unfortunately he had a switch set that would disable his rudder, so during his climb he was swinging wildly back and forth trying to figure out his control issue and I could do nothing but putter along while his rocket with a lawn-mower blade on the front was chewing through the air behind me. All I could do was stay the course and wait until he eventually passed by, but it was a terrible feeling.

Based on this experience, I now highly recommend that faster planes launch immediately and slower planes wait a bit. A rocket that climbs 200 meters in 20 seconds will put 10 meters between itself and a plane waiting waiting on the ground every second.

Landings are another matter especially if there is a shorter task that most pilots can fly and every plane is jockeying to enter their landing corridor simultaneously.
Aric, I agree with you on your launch suggestion. Another thing. This is not a race. We have a 10 secs launch window, so don't start your motor until you intend to launch. I have seen all the pilots start their motors immediately the launch signal is given, then hold with the motor running until they decide to launch. That is a waste of climb time. Ken.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 12:39 PM
Soaring Circuits
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Coopersburg, PA
Joined Sep 2001
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Best advice I can give after flying ALES contests for two years is this, when standing at the flight line, talk to your neighbors.

If I'm standing there with my 500W 4m AVA and I have a Radian on either side of me, I'll ask them if they want me to go first, which is usually the case. So, I'll launch at the beginning of the window and get out of their way so they have a good 8-9 seconds to take their time and launch when things clear out a little. Believe it or not, that 10 second window is awful long when you're out on the field.

Remember, a little common courtesy can go a long way. It's even better than rules sometimes!

Randy
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 01:49 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
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I do the same thing Randy.
The pilots on either side of me generally want me to go first, In which case I will oblige... Even though sometimes I'd rather wait.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 02:29 PM
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jan 2009
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If you are nervous, pick a landing tape at one of the ends where there is more open sky to your right or left. Where this can backfire is if yours is the end of the field that everyone flies through when returning to their own tape. That can make landings hair-raising as planes may cross the area you are using for your approach beyond the end of the formal landing zone.

Clarification... we don't allow flying over the landing zones, I am referring to the area beyond the landing circle and the assigned landing zone, so about 80 feet out from the pilot. See the field diagram here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1609600
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Last edited by awilmunder; Mar 15, 2012 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Indianapolis, IN USA
Joined Nov 2000
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You refer to AMA, LSF and NATS rules, then add "There will be zero points awarded for the flight if a plane’s motor is restarted after the initial run." The NATS rules for this and LMR have always been that you may run the motor at will during the first 30 seconds (or until the 200m). Why made needless changes?
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 02:09 PM
Good for what ALES you
awilmunder's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Jan 2009
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Your question is a good one to ask and may merit its own thread. As a CD, here is my reasoning.

With most limiters, if you cut the throttle for a few seconds, it resets the onboard 30-second timer. Since ALES uses a launch window, not simultaneous release, you can't have a single shared cutoff time, so someone could launch at the start of the launch window, reset, and then have additional time under power. Limiting motor restarts seemed to be a practical solution.

There are some items that come up that aren't in the ALES rules and in these situations I have tried to adopt AMA rules. As an example, ALES has rules for damage during landings, but nothing about a plane that flips over. We also adopted the 5-meter landing tape. As a CD you should make the effort to identify these during the Pilots' Meeting.

We had a question after an Old-Timer did an ROG (Rise-off-Ground) launch at our most recent event. The rules state that the timer starts when the model leaves the hands of the pilot or helper, so holding the rudder between the thumb and forefinger seemed to meet the rules. If you want to see an ALES ROG launch, skip about 5-minutes into the video.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=24
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