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Old Oct 05, 2012, 05:05 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Thermaling for beginners sticky....

Out of the first 100 posts there is nothing to help me to improve my thermal skills. Either the links are dead or do not pertain to thermals.

I didn't look past post 100.

ken
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 06:46 PM
Dragons, WindMills, all Same
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined May 2002
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Ton's of stuff here.

A Bible, so to speak, is well respected.
Old Buzzard’s Soaring Book by Dave Thornburg

http://carstensbookstore.com/oldbusobobyd.html

Jared
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 09:48 PM
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This is going to sound off topic, but it's not. If there's a thermal duration contest near you, fly in it. Get timed by experts and time for them. You will learn a lot in a hurry.

Of course Thornburg's book is excellent.

If you can catch some thermals and handle a glider well, try hlg or dlg. If throwing hurts too much, you can use a tiny high start. You'll get some accelerated training.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 12:26 PM
B for Bruce
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
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A fairly recent thread in Electric Sailplanes has some good information.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1733119
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 08:23 PM
Unrepentant Paragon addict
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If you have any specific questions, don't be shy about posting them. You'll probably get more advice than you ever wanted.
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Old Oct 06, 2012, 08:58 PM
rfk
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There is nothing better than flying with other glider pilots. The Old Buzzard’s Soaring Book by Dave Thornburg is great so are the DVD's from Radio Carbon Art ... www.radiocarbonart.com.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 12:30 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln View Post
This is going to sound off topic, but it's not. If there's a thermal duration contest near you, fly in it. Get timed by experts and time for them. You will learn a lot in a hurry.

Of course Thornburg's book is excellent.

If you can catch some thermals and handle a glider well, try hlg or dlg. If throwing hurts too much, you can use a tiny high start. You'll get some accelerated training.
I just purchased a DLG and am looking for some incite on thermaling.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 09:46 PM
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Well, you'd learn a lot at a dlg contest also.

Seems to me that dlg provides more feedback, so you may learn a lot by just flying a lot. You might try putting up a few poles with very light streamers on them, and correlating that with what the dlg does. The streamers will usually point toward lift and away from sink.

When you're flying low like that, you can get clues from bugs. If you see them high up, it probably means they're in rising air. Ditto if you see bug eating birds like purple martins circling around at, say, 20 or more feet of altitude. I once won an event at a free flight contest by noticing what I think may have been spider silk getting pulled into the air. Sometimes trees will release fluffy stuff that can get pulled up also. If everything gets warm and still, it's likely the lift is slightly upwind of you.

It's not always easy to tell which way trees, bushes, and grass are being blown, but if they're all pointing at one spot, it's likely you'll find lift there. The prevailing wind may bias this. If that happens, the lift will be a bit upwind of where everything is pointing.

Thornburg's book and his buzzard essays from Model Builder describe this better than I can.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 04:30 PM
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ken:

I feel your pain - I had to learn by myself, and it was hard, hard, hard.

However, I can now also recommend Dave's little book, which is available at Carsten's Press and also on Amazon.com (but for usually outrageous prices). Please get it, and read it. Further, you mentioned DLG. That's what I do, and there is plenty of advice of all kinds available in the Handlaunch Forum. Post your questions, and standby for all kinds of responses (many of them quite good).

I've been doing DLG for some years now. I wish I'd had some help back then, and I'm always willing to help now. Even after several years, it's still great fun, alone or with others.

I've got cousins near Davenport. None of them fly, though.

Yours, Greg
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 06:29 PM
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I've seen an older DVD on dlg from Paul Naton (Radio Carbon Art). Included some good discussion of how to catch thermals, with appropriate footage. Thermals don't change, but I'm sure the equipment recommendations have.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 08:57 PM
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Try this thread

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=thermals
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 09:15 AM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiker View Post
Thanks!! It will take me a bit to digest all of that but it is a start!!

Ken
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 12:55 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenh3497 View Post
I just purchased a DLG and am looking for some incite on thermaling.
Learning to Thermal
by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

A thermal is a column of warm rising air that occurs when one section of the
ground warms faster then other sections. As the air raises it draws in
more air. Think of a very slow moving tornado.

Not exactly correct but close enough for first approximation.

Here is a great video on thermals. I highly recommend it!

The Secrets of Thermal Soaring
http://www.radiocarbonart.com/Pages/...ermalmain.html


Almost any plane can thermal, but the lighter the wing loading the better.
Under 12 ounces/sq ft is really good and under 8 is great for gliders 2M and
larger. For DLGs you want to be under 5 ounces!

Many small electric planes have wing loadings in this area so they often
thermal well too. My first thermal experience was with a small electric airplane
called an Aerobird.

Flat bottom or under cambered wings tend to do better than symmetrical or
semi-symmetrical wings but if the lift is strong, you can thermal anything.
In fact we sometimes have to pull out of thermals because the lift is so
strong that the plane can be pulled into the sky and out of sight. I have
seen it happen.

For some people this may sound boring, but I relate it to fishing. You may
cast out many times with no bites. Still, the process is relaxing and
pleasurable.

Finally you get a strike and the fight begins.

You go on each fishing trip looking forward to the catch, but knowing that
you will enjoy the process even if you come home with nothing. To
non-fishermen this sounds odd. They just don't understand. Likewise with
thermaling.

TIPS ON FINDING THERMALS

The best conditions are calm air, hot sun and low humidity. Some big dark
areas surrounded by lighter areas will help to create thermals, so look to
see if there is anything like that on or around your field. A freshly
plowed field is good. A parking lot works great! A large building with a
black roof is awesome.

However I have caught thermals at 35 degrees F in 15 mph winds. They can be
weak and they move fast, but the are there!

Here are some thoughts on the hunt!

Get your plane up high, the higher the better. Get it well up wind from you
as we are going to glide and drift with the river of air.

If you have a motor, cut the motor and trim the plane for nice level flight.
Now, focus on watching the plane and keeping it on a nice steady glide.
Steady as she goes. Try to keep your hands off the sticks as much as
possible.

Let the plane ride with and across the river of air, giving it only
occasional input to keep it going in the general direction you want to go,
but don't be a stickler about it. Let it drift like a fly on the surface of
the river, waiting for a trout.

If you listen with your eyes, it will speak to you, but you have to listen
patiently.

Glide across the air flow, not into it and not with it. Sort of a 45 -60 degree
left for a while then a 45 to 60 degrees to the right. Nice and slow and
easy. You want to cover the sky and search the moving river of air, like a
bird looking for food.

As you are flying watch the wing tips the nose and the tail. If a wing
seems to bump up, or if the plane seems to become buoyant, floating up for a
moment, it could be a gust, or you might have just brushed a thermal. Go
immediately into a slow turn in the direction of the wing that rose. If
you think you went right through it, fly on for a moment then turn to
circle back into it. It will be moving toward you.

Try to make a circle, but not too tight or you will lose too much altitude.
For 2 Meter and above, try for about a 75-100 foot diameter at first. Under
2 meter cut that in half. Complete a couple of turns
and see if the plane seems to be rising. If it is, just stay with the turn.
We don't want to scare the thermal, we want to bond with it.

Try to observe if the plane is rising steadily, or if it seems to rise and
fall that means you are not centered in the thermal, so work your way more
toward the side of the circle where the plane rises.

Remember that thermals move with the wind, so you are not trying to stay in
one place in relation to the ground. The air is like a river and you are
trying to stay in a little whirlpool that is moving with the river.

If you go into the turn and make a couple of turns with no success, then
just resume the search pattern I mentioned. Angles across the wind. Not
into it and now with it. If you have no success then try a different part of the
sky on the next launch. This is like fishing. You have to cast about till you find
where the fish are hanging out. Typically you will find a region on your field were
the thermals are hanging out, that day. Other days they may be somewhere
else. That is why it is a hunters game. You have to go looking for your prey.

A sailplane in lift
http://www.rcgroups.com/articles/lif...r/ava/Ava2.wmv

If you are getting out too far, work your way back the same
way, angles to the wind.

Unless you hit a boomer, you are not going to immediately know you are in
lift, so you have to watch the plane. Sometimes it becomes apparent because
you realize that you’re not sinking but appear to be holding altitude. The
only way to do that is to be in lift.

Remember also that thermals can vary in size and intensity. Some are fairly
narrow and some are so large that it seems a whole region of the sky is in
lift. I rode one area recently for 45 minutes where it seemed about 1/4 of
the field was in lift. You didn't really have to circle. You could just fly
back and forth and the plane would rise beautifully. Those are really nice,
when you find them.

It is a hunter's game, if you are up for it.

Good luck pilot! May your hunt go well!

Resources

What do Thermals Look Like
www.ppssrc.com/articles/soaring_faq.html#589882
www.rc-soar.com/tech/thermals.htm

Finding Elusive Thermals
http://f4bscale.worldonline.co.uk/Thermals.htm

Thermals: Collectors, Wicks and Triggers
By Will Gadd
http://www.gravsports.com/Paraglidin...s/thermals.htm

Thermaling on a windy day
http://www.moneysmith.net/Soaring/soaring9.html#ref97


Aviation Weather
From the full text of the classic FAA guide
http://www.aviationweather.ws/095_Thermal_Soaring.php

Search Patterns
http://www.quicktechhobby.com/articl...20part%202.htm

If you are a new glider pilot, this is a great resource:
http://www.flyesl.org/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=14

BIRDS, THERMALS AND SOARING FLIGHT
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/nature/q0253.shtml
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Last edited by aeajr; Oct 17, 2012 at 08:55 AM. Reason: fixed some typos
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:24 AM
I'd Rather Be Flying
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Stockton CA
Joined Feb 2009
609 Posts
Thanks Ed Thats some great information. I'll be clicking on links for weeks. Lotsa good info in those links. I really liked one of the links I found in this link about balancing your plane.

If you are a new glider pilot, this is a great resource:
http://www.flyesl.org/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=14
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 08:26 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
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The Eastern Soaring League is a soaring competition league but it is also a great training experience. As part of that experience we created the Novice Lounge to help new glider pilots learn to soar to new heights.

If there is a soaring league near you I would higly recommend you try to connect with them. It is not all about winning. It is about learning, and becoming a better pilots.
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Last edited by aeajr; Oct 17, 2012 at 08:57 AM.
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