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Old Sep 29, 2010, 01:56 PM
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A mile high and 30 feet south of the 40th parallel
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Originally Posted by snivilous View Post
A-10s should fly good i would think. I'd be cautious of bananahobby though. My friend got the thrust vectoring F-15, and he's kinda new to the hobby, though he had a lot of problems. Crappy servos, HORRIBLE customer service, and his RTF radio he got with it wouldn't bind to the reciever (for some reason it didnt come bound), so he got a new reciever from BH though that one didnt work, then one day it just randomly bound up. We even tried switching in a spektrum reciever, though for some reason juice is given to the reciever from the ESC for a moment, then stops, so you can't change out recievers and stuff. He had a bad experience with them, so I'd be careful if you can't buy the kit version (airframe only).
for a first EDF, and if you want to get it from BH, I would still suggest the F-22.

it flies well, and floats unlike a phantom or F-18.

it was my 3rd plane, and first EDF.

I replaced the elevator servos, re-soldered the ESC, replaced clevises and reinforced the control surfaces.

it is a very very cool, and relatively easy to fly plane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDgHz...embedded#at=26

F-22 RAPTOR.1.wmv (5 min 1 sec)
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Old Sep 29, 2010, 02:47 PM
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Joined Nov 2005
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These guys seem to have the F4D also

http://shop.hobbyshopwarehouse.com/F...E-A-JE0406.htm
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Old Oct 04, 2010, 07:35 AM
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clinth01's Avatar
Townsville, Australia
Joined Sep 2009
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I have to agree with the idea of starting with a delta -type aircraft. Large wing area gives low wing loading, so they are easy to handle at lower speeds, but can still bore holes in the sky at WOT. As a newbie 1 year EDF jockey, here are my tips :-

You get what you pay for. Cheap, cheerful Chinese stuff can be great flyers, and a lot of fun, but don't expect the earth from them. If you want better, be prepared to pay a bit more, and to do it yourself.

Don't expect too much from the included electronics. Even Chinese businesses are looking to make a profit and to do things as ecconomically as they can. Out of my 5 'plug and play' aircraft, the BH A-10 is the only one still flying with original gear. And it's now fixed gear, because plastic retracts don't like grass runways.

NEVER try to fly with the crappy included battery. Get a decent one.

If you have a sealed runway, supplied retracts 'may' last, provided you don't throw the plane onto the ground at the end of every flight. Replace the included retract servos with metal gear versions.

If you have a grass strip, go fixed gear, and upgrade the power system, or no gear and reinforce the belly for landings with tape or glass cloth.

All aircraft stall. Props generally give you some warning signs, but with EDF it can be very sudden. Not worse, just really quick.

Fly close in until you get the hang of it. EDF's are generally small and fast, and orientation gets hard if they're too far away. From nose-on, or tail-on, they can simply disappear in the sky.

No yanking and banking. With props it's OK, but with EDF's, you may as well stomp all over it before takeoff if you're going to do that. Smooth, sweeping turns and manouevres are the go. Hard turns remove the required airflow over control surfaces, and your EDF model becomes a gravity powered, earthbound missile.

Don't believe the instructions. Go back to first principles when it comes to determining and setting up the balance point and control surface throws. Get an experienced modeller to help and guide you.

Get your lazy butt out of bed really early on the maiden flight day. Early morning generally means less wind, which means easier trimming, and nicer flying conditions. After a few solid flights to get the feel for it, wind won't matter.

Whatever anyone else thinks, the above works for me, and the knowledge has been acquired at the expense of not just a few good airframes
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Old Oct 06, 2010, 07:54 PM
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Joined Jul 2010
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just purchased it..same as hobby lobby model

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...EDF_Plug-n-Fly
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Old Oct 08, 2010, 05:41 PM
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A mile high and 30 feet south of the 40th parallel
Joined Dec 2009
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lol

you may need to like, pull that one from the air.

w/ that wing you're gonna have a lot of fun man. good luck!
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Old Oct 09, 2010, 05:42 PM
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In addition; some things that doesn't appear to be added.

Setting up an EDF model correctly.
  • Understand cg and that neither nose heavy or tail heavy is good. Sport models get away with this as their flight envelope is not intending to be as precise. Nose heavy only dampens flight control making it easier for new pilots but less controlled for experienced.
  • An understanding of the different flight characteristics from stab/elevator vs Stabilators or Tailerons in connection with travel range is useful.
  • The surface travel is much less at speed and more in a slow profile. Some struggle by setting the expo high and the travel low for take offs & landings. This can induce porpoising. The expo, if used, should be high and the travel high once the model enters a slow profile.
    At higher speeds expo, if used, should be high and travel low.
  • Too much travel, putting the linkage in the outside servo arm hole will likely induce porpoising or end badly.
  • The setup for an EDF servo to horn is the opposite of 3D. Inside servo arm hole and linkage clearing structure to control horn is best as it provided the highest resolution from the servo without adding expo. This reduces strain, the inside hole requiring less torque, and potential servo fail driven by flutter at higher speeds.
  • Greater attention to tight linkages

Flying abilities:
EDFs are nothing to fear but are a step up from sport fliers. They require finer control skills.
  • Most bad landings, under power or not, is a sign of a bad approach, out of position or over speed, which is a sign of a developing flier. It indicates that they have not yet learned how to control there model to be where it needs to be at the proper approach speed.
  • Having the ability to find and maintain control of an A/C at pre stall speed is ideal. Pilots should be able to perform a slight nose high AoA level flight pass maintaining altitude strictly by the throttle, attitude by all other controls.
  • The above combination of positioning, approach, altitude and attitude control makes for the best landings regardless of the conditions.
  • Higher wing loaded EDF models usually have lower stall points at both low speed and at high speeds. This narrower margin is what separates a sport model from a EDF.
  • Flying with good Energy management or momentum management always looks smoother.

Model designs and Wing types

Each model configuration and wing type is out to exploit a particular control range. In doing so it usually narrows the flight envelope or control range.
Thus a Delta or broad straight wings with large control surfaces will be more forgiving (e.g. Eurofighter or F22) vs more scale like models (e.g. F117 or starfighter).
Other semi scale types like the many F4 Phantom can be a challenge as its wing load usually is higher, its roll control are more inboard of the wing where the glaps would be, sometimes used as flapperon, and many designs use a Stab/Elevator where the design truely needs a Stabilator since the surface is relatively small to the wing area and A/C mass distribution.
And I have to go to dinner now so I'll stop writting
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 01:45 AM
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dubai
Joined Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by BEELZEBOB View Post
I would say dont be afraid.

Threads like this make it seem like a huge and difficult progression.

i picked up my very first plane in Jan. 2010 i had never flown any sort of plane prior to that point.

I got a BL P-51 in March.

And i got my first EDF in June.

I kept being told, # 1, i couldn't fly a 4ch plane in January.

well i did.

#2 I have heard that Ailerons are hard for a beginner. I feel that rudder is worthless for a beginner, and ailerons are just fine.

and i fly great w. Ailerons, and use rudder when i land, only, maybe.


#3 I have heard, and been told that its impossible for a beginner to build and fly an EDF.

w/ barley 9months under my belt as an RC pilot, I consider myself a beginner.

and i love both of my EDFs, and have yet to crash. (i had 1 hard landing when i tried to touch the tops of the grass @ my feild....)

but i have not yet found that an EDF is "BEYOND" my abilities as a beginner.


i woudnt touch a composite or turbine EDF @ this point.

come Jan.2011 that will change.

but for now, i love foamies. and wouldnt ever tell some one they CANT do something.

a better approach, and a total rarity on this forum,

would be an assisting hand pointing out key aspects that a newb may over look when they do.

when some one makes an impulse buy, and people laugh and say "YOU CANT DO THAT"

its very frustrating, and not helpful.

but should someone say, "hey, thats a tough starting point, but with my experience, let me help you understand these things....."

that would be awesome. But it just doesnt happen here.

SOOOOOO, maybe if all the elitists are frustrated w/ so many people asking if they can fly an EDF....

Encourage them, help them, and guide them. Tell them stuff they may not know.

Dont tell them that they will crash.

We all crash at some point.

so there is no reason to point that out to someone who is trying to learn.

People come to the forums for an oppertunity to learn.

however, on RCG, it seems that being a newb means you should do your own research and leave us who know what we are doing alone.

I almost got banned in my first thread because after people told me the was no way i could fly a 4ch plane as a newb,

i told them to take note that i already had, and dont want their opinions on if i can or cannot, because I had.


I guess i would say, do your own research. Dont depend on other people opinions as to what you can/should do.

if you have to depend on other people to tell you what to do and when, well, this hobby will suck for you reguardless of the type of plane you want to fly.


if you have researched your butt of and know everything you think you need to know, ask for help, but take other people's responses with a grain of salt.

they are only, like opinions man. not facts.
thanks v. much man for what u said i really love to try and make mistakes because thats haw we learn . i got an f-14 edf just 3 weeks ago but i didnt fly it yet so i'm practicing now on the realflight 4.5 sim. so from ur experience any advices for me for the first flight or when it will be reasonable to do the first flight ??
thanks
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 11:45 AM
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Is it the new 55MM F-14? If yes I would set your timer for about 3-4 minutes. You might have a hard time flying this...if it is your very first RC Airplane! If you decide to "GO FOR IT" make sure you check everything! Make sure that your control surfaces are moving the correct way! Fly in a really open area with little wind. Double check the CG and make sure you have charged the battery! I hope that it lasts more than one flight...if not I don't want to tell you I told you so. EDF's don't take crashes as good as something like a Super Cub!
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 12:09 PM
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A mile high and 30 feet south of the 40th parallel
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikaso View Post
thanks v. much man for what u said i really love to try and make mistakes because thats haw we learn . i got an f-14 edf just 3 weeks ago but i didnt fly it yet so i'm practicing now on the realflight 4.5 sim. so from ur experience any advices for me for the first flight or when it will be reasonable to do the first flight ??
thanks
Check all your surfaces. make sure every thing is moving freely and in the right direction.

if you hand launch, let the fan spin up for about 5 seconds before you launch. DO NOT go from 0 to full throttle the same time you let the plane go.

if you have a friend and long grass...... try glide testing the plane if its a 50mm.


breath deep, and go for it.

on your sim, practice flying w/o the lil orientation window. the biggest challenge of a small edf will be orientation.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 01:13 PM
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dubai
Joined Oct 2010
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bighead93 and BEELZEBOB>>> thanks very much for ur replay . today i went with afriend he is flying edf's 10 years ago so i asked him to check every thing for me and after that he did the first flight for it . so its flied beautifully and land it very nice so i was very happy that its flying so i 'm now 1 month on the sim 3 hours oer day and i can say that in the last 6 days i crach 3 times only so i hope i can do the first flight for me with good luck
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 02:04 PM
On Drugs
BEELZEBOB's Avatar
A mile high and 30 feet south of the 40th parallel
Joined Dec 2009
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I am under the impression that if i can do it, anyone can.

keep up the sim man, and go for it.

worst case scenario you will have some minor repairs.

best case, you will buy a lot more LOL

have fun man. that is all that matters. enjoy yourself!
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikaso View Post
thanks v. much man for what u said i really love to try and make mistakes because thats haw we learn . i got an f-14 edf just 3 weeks ago but i didnt fly it yet so i'm practicing now on the realflight 4.5 sim. so from ur experience any advices for me for the first flight or when it will be reasonable to do the first flight ??
thanks
Keep the wings extended and get used to it. Don't setup up the stabilators (rear elevators for pitch only) as Tailerons (rear elevator as pitch and roll surfaces) till you really get used to it. The F14 was bad for flat spins and lateral departures.

When you get around to swinging the wings the centre of lift moves back so the model will dip down some. Mix in stabilator ~1-2mm to pitch the model up more as the wings sweep back.

The wing load is a bit higher on this model so keep some speed up and make a conscious effort not to over correct.

Don't freak out too much. Really. That just leads to brain freeze, I meant to go up not down, left not right sort of stuff. For everyone each new model is new to them too. Some may have refined their skills to deal with it and by experience have an idea what may be happening before it goes all wanky

Fly something else before you fly this just to self check that your head is in the right space.

Have fun and learn a little at a time if it seems like a handful. Fly over tall grass works for me specially for hand launching.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 03:13 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEELZEBOB View Post
I am under the impression that if i can do it, anyone can.

keep up the sim man, and go for it.

worst case scenario you will have some minor repairs.

best case, you will buy a lot more LOL

have fun man. that is all that matters. enjoy yourself!
B... I used to think the same thing. When I first tried out for my wings years ago, I grew up thinking aviation and another guy not so much but he played video games when he was ready to start. We were both in within a week. You're likely an exception too. But there are still 3 guys that started years before us and years later still can't figure it out. Everyone lands and seeks shelter even with their instructor at the sticks. Many are in between.

But like your thinking, you can't let that hold you back since you won't know that till you try.

If bikaso's not getting it then he can take a step back and slow it down.
Bikaso have you flown anything before. If not, the stall points on SIMs are seldom realistic. Just don't get too slow.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 04:21 PM
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A mile high and 30 feet south of the 40th parallel
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Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
B... I used to think the same thing. When I first tried out for my wings years ago, I grew up thinking aviation and another guy not so much but he played video games when he was ready to start. We were both in within a week. You're likely an exception too. But there are still 3 guys that started years before us and years later still can't figure it out. Everyone lands and seeks shelter even with their instructor at the sticks. Many are in between.

But like your thinking, you can't let that hold you back since you won't know that till you try.

If bikaso's not getting it then he can take a step back and slow it down.
Bikaso have you flown anything before. If not, the stall points on SIMs are seldom realistic. Just don't get too slow.

thats really all im trying to say....

LOL im just not a man of few words......

I dont think, but am running on assumption, this is his very first plane.

But yea, anything bigger than a 50mm EDF... will be a serios challenge as a first plane...

to say the least.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEELZEBOB View Post
thats really all im trying to say....

LOL im just not a man of few words......

I dont think, but am running on assumption, this is his very first plane.

But yea, anything bigger than a 50mm EDF... will be a serios challenge as a first plane...

to say the least.
Small and heavy is a challenge which this is. Once he has it air born he'll have 3 min to figure out his landing. I wouldn't even spend too much time trimming on 1st flight. Just repeated 2 mistakes high landing approach. It'll be better if he had someone else to trim.
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