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Old Aug 31, 2010, 01:13 AM
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Mission B.C Canada
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Spinning Top

Hey
Could people please list all and any info that could cause a Heli to spin crazy on the ground. Gyro seems to be working but not holding whatever is creating it to spin. ( Belt 250, 703 TX/RX) If the rotor blades are disconnected at the axle shaft it does not spin.If I just remove the rear balades it still spins. i`m stumped???
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Old Aug 31, 2010, 09:08 PM
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Mission B.C Canada
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Anybody ????????????
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Old Aug 31, 2010, 09:25 PM
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USA, FL, Oviedo
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you sure u didnt reverse the gyro?
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Old Sep 01, 2010, 02:00 AM
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Mission B.C Canada
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Hey
Tried gyro both ways, increased an decreased gain, head hold and rate mode, even put a different known working gyro on it. Nothing seems to help
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Old Sep 01, 2010, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ktombs1 View Post
Hey
Tried gyro both ways, increased an decreased gain, head hold and rate mode, even put a different known working gyro on it. Nothing seems to help
is your belt loose?if you say the gyro is set right ,then that will be the only reason why it would spin
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Old Sep 01, 2010, 08:44 PM
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Mission B.C Canada
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Hey
Ya the belt is nice and tight. This is a strange one, I was hoping I would get some weird case situations that people have experienced. If there was more than 1 twist in the belt could that cause it to spin??? Not saying that there is just a thought cause its hard to tell or look down the tail boom to see.
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Old Sep 02, 2010, 12:44 AM
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Pontiac/Auburn Hills, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by ktombs1 View Post
Hey
Could people please list all and any info that could cause a Heli to spin crazy on the ground. Gyro seems to be working but not holding whatever is creating it to spin. ( Belt 250, 703 TX/RX) If the rotor blades are disconnected at the axle shaft it does not spin.If I just remove the rear balades it still spins. i`m stumped???
Spinning on the ground at very low main rotor RPM is normal. See our complete explanation below:

You say you have the Belt 250. You can reply with the serial number so we can confirm or use this information. If your serial number begins with WH3 XXXXXX then it is a WASP V3; If your serial number begins with V4BS XXXX then it is a belt 250 plastic head; if your serial number begins with V4BJ XXXX then it is a Belt 250 metal head

Do you have the plastic head or metal head? Do you have the FP (fixed pitch)or the CCPM?

Skyartec uses one box for all of their helicopters. Many people buy the Wasp V3 and think it is the V4 Belt 250.

Could you take a moment and re phrase this explanation? Take your time and use complete sentences and thoughts. - you said, " ..rotor blades are disconnected at the axle shaft it does not spin"
What do you mean disconnected? What do you mean "...it doesn't spin" what does not spin? How and what did you do to "disconnect the rotor blades? are you talking main blades or tail rotor?

The biggest mistake was messing around with any of the Tx settings or any settings on the Gyro.... huge mistake. These are configured properly at factory. Every heli is test flown before it is shipped. Damage or something is wrong with the heli physically.

Additionally, you didn't mention if you had this problem from the very time the box was opened or if you have 6 months of flying on it and this is a new issue. You didn't mention any repairs or changes to the setup of the heli.

To diagnose your issues without the heli on the bench is most difficult. The more information you provide the better; the more complete the information you can provide, at the highest level of detail might be helpful.

You have some choices; return it to the dealer you bought it from for inspection; or return it to us; as the factory authorized USA dealer for Skyartec we can diagnose the problems and give you a quote. You would need only to cover shipping to us and then back to you. Fees for bench time would be determined by the work necessary.

We will attempt to help you here in the forum but you need to make an investment of time, in return for our expert help. Your investment is taking the time to provide complete details on the helicopters history and activity.

Some things to check in the mean time; main gear should have no broken or worn teeth. Main gear needs to mesh with the pinion without slipping, but not so tight as to grind down the main gear teeth. Make sure the tail rotor blades are installed in the correct direction and they are spinning in the correct direction. ( standing at the rear looking forward they should rotate toward you and not away from you). Fat part of tail rotor blade coming toward you. Make sure the tail rotor holder is not slipping on the transmission shaft. Tail rotor holder has a very tiny set screw that holds it firmly on the transmission shaft.
Low speed main rotor on the ground will allow the heli to spin like a top.
UNTIL you get the main rotor turning fast enough to spin the tail rotor very fast, the tail rotor will have NO effect on the tail boom control while it is on the ground. Bringing up the throttle just to the point of lift off, the tail should stabilize. The faster the tail rotor spins the more air it can push to keep the tail steady. Make sure the gyro light is red, not green.

The most common reasons for tail out of control are: loose belt/twisted belt, main gear broken teeth; tail blades spinning in wrong direction; tail rotor holder loose on the transmission shaft. A tail strike on the spinning tail rotor can quickly loosen the holder from the shaft. Also does the radio actually move (change pitch) the tail rotor blades when you move the rudder stick left and right? Does the pitch throw push the blade to the full throw distance on the transmission shaft to get maximum pitch? Also the tail servo could have sustained damage and is locking up.

nuff said,

Max
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Old Sep 18, 2010, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktombs1 View Post
Hey
Could people please list all and any info that could cause a Heli to spin crazy on the ground. Gyro seems to be working but not holding whatever is creating it to spin. ( Belt 250, 703 TX/RX) If the rotor blades are disconnected at the axle shaft it does not spin.If I just remove the rear balades it still spins. i`m stumped???
Confirm that your rear rotor belt is not twisted. Check that the rear rotor rotates to the right direction - if the direction is wrong it makes the helicopter spin on the ground.
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Old Sep 18, 2010, 09:34 AM
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USA, FL, Oviedo
Joined Jun 2010
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if the tail of the heli is facing u,the tail rotor should be spinning towards you wile the main rotor spins clockwise.also is your tail blades installed in the right direction ?
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 12:35 AM
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Mission B.C Canada
Joined Aug 2010
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Hey
Sorry I am not a big fan of typing. All the obvious stuff has been checked and checked again. Thank you for the responses. I also have a Shark 450 that I assembled, it has no issues. As well as a CopterX 450 SE V2, Art-tech Hughes 300, Blade SR and a Skyartek Ninja 400. Of all these helis the Skyarteks are the most high maintanence. The Belt 250 ( CNC Version) has been jinxed from day one, 2 of the 702 transmitters up and died and then the tail assembly blew apart( carbon pieces) Put the older full aluminium tail on and then the spinning started. Funny thing with the Gyro I mounted it so the writing was upside down and actually got a stable tail but with heavy wag. Tryed different gain settings in the 703 TX software but no improvement. Last time I was tinkering with it the rudder spun into a wall in my shop and the belt snapped. Hung it back on the wall again maybe look at it again some day when I am bored. Or it may end up as a parts donor for my Blade SR when I do a belt conversion ( same tail parts).
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 06:26 PM
United States, MI, Auburn Hills
Joined Dec 2008
833 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktombs1 View Post
Hey
Sorry I am not a big fan of typing. All the obvious stuff has been checked and checked again. Thank you for the responses. I also have a Shark 450 that I assembled, it has no issues. As well as a CopterX 450 SE V2, Art-tech Hughes 300, Blade SR and a Skyartek Ninja 400. Of all these helis the Skyarteks are the most high maintanence. The Belt 250 ( CNC Version) has been jinxed from day one, 2 of the 702 transmitters up and died and then the tail assembly blew apart( carbon pieces) Put the older full aluminium tail on and then the spinning started. Funny thing with the Gyro I mounted it so the writing was upside down and actually got a stable tail but with heavy wag. Tryed different gain settings in the 703 TX software but no improvement. Last time I was tinkering with it the rudder spun into a wall in my shop and the belt snapped. Hung it back on the wall again maybe look at it again some day when I am bored. Or it may end up as a parts donor for my Blade SR when I do a belt conversion ( same tail parts).
I am not big on the typing stuff myself, but I spent a better part of an hour trying to help.
A lot of your issues sound like they started out of the box. While the factory does flight check each helicopter before they ship it, shipping can cause a lot of issues. Sometimes the issues a buyer encounters has to do with the original setup. Having a dealer that flight tests and bench checks each helicopter before they are shipped to the final desination, greatly reduces these issues.

You don't have your country listed, so I don't know how much further help we can offer;
Again, we are sorry to hear about your issues with the Skyartec Helicopter. Let us know if we can be of further assistance; feel free to contact me directly.

Max
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 04:53 AM
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Germany
Joined Sep 2010
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OMG, Thankyou so much guys. I had purchased 2 helis, wasp v3 6ch belt. 1 for a freind, i have crashed mine many time but yet only spent about 15 dollars on parts, hehe. My freind how ever didnt read the RADDS SCHOOL FLYING tips, powered up and crashed, at this point sheared all the teeth off the main gear, left it in the box for a few months and now has asked me to fix it.

Main gear for the first time without reading any tips was not hard, now there is no slippage, all is alligned and like new, how ever i have had this spinning top issue now and have spent six hours changing parts from mine to his to try a "trial and error approach" to eliminate problems, but still spins. Upon reading a very very helpfull post from Skyartec USA i have dicovered the tail blades are spinning the wrong way as to mine.

I do realise the belt is twisted, my question would be is there any method to correct this fast and easy and insuring when puting back together that it won twist within the boom?? i would rather get advice from you guys then do it myself for another 6hrs, haha.


thanks
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 09:45 AM
United States, MI, Auburn Hills
Joined Dec 2008
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Originally Posted by skylifter1 View Post
OMG, Thankyou so much guys. I had purchased 2 helis, wasp v3 6ch belt. 1 for a freind, i have crashed mine many time but yet only spent about 15 dollars on parts, hehe. My freind how ever didnt read the RADDS SCHOOL FLYING tips, powered up and crashed, at this point sheared all the teeth off the main gear, left it in the box for a few months and now has asked me to fix it.

Main gear for the first time without reading any tips was not hard, now there is no slippage, all is alligned and like new, how ever i have had this spinning top issue now and have spent six hours changing parts from mine to his to try a "trial and error approach" to eliminate problems, but still spins. Upon reading a very very helpfull post from Skyartec USA i have dicovered the tail blades are spinning the wrong way as to mine.

I do realise the belt is twisted, my question would be is there any method to correct this fast and easy and insuring when puting back together that it won twist within the boom?? i would rather get advice from you guys then do it myself for another 6hrs, haha.


thanks
rather than removing the main gear again, i would remove/unloosen the tail section and rotate it until the belt was correctly positioned as not to be twisted. Make sure belt is taut behind the main gear after you tighten done the tail section.

Max
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 05:07 AM
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Germany
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Originally Posted by Parkflying View Post
rather than removing the main gear again, i would remove/unloosen the tail section and rotate it until the belt was correctly positioned as not to be twisted. Make sure belt is taut behind the main gear after you tighten done the tail section.

Max
ok so now i have done that, and it still spins like crazy on the ground. i cannot trim it any further ( which shouldnt be the case anyways ), i have changed the tail servo, gyro and still spins, i have put the gyro and servo in my heli and it works fine, the main gear and pully are alligned and run smothly, the head is all good and has no damage. the belt is fine and isnt twisted, the tail rotors rotate in the correct way, also have replaced the blades. but i still cannot stop the spinning, i changed the gyro from A to B and the spinning stopped a lil but not much, it spins in slow and fast throttle. IM STUMPED. after putting the parts back in my own heli it works fine, not even a small glitch, i am very happy with mine. as for my freinds hahaha, what can i say............

Have spent more hours and further testing, have pulled apart the tail, i have noticed the rear blades are not alligned, i can see that there is about 2-3mm distance gap when they are spinning, do you know what i mean? and if so could this be the problem, i replaced all the plastics on the rear, spinning isnt so bad but cannot correct it with trim or controler. cannot even take off as it just spins faster when in the air. its like the tail blades need tracking?? have you had any other similar probs to mine in the past?? remember this is a brandnew heli, out of the box, main gear sheared the teeth and it crashed, im just fining it hard to beleive that he can have 1 lil crash ( obviously under power as once the teeth sheared off nothing could power ) and have such problems, so far ive spent 10hrs all up trying to diagnose this, read all instructions i can find.

would be great for any other info or help.

thanks
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 05:31 AM
United States, MI, Auburn Hills
Joined Dec 2008
833 Posts
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Originally Posted by skylifter1 View Post
... and have such problems, so far ive spent 10hrs all up trying to diagnose this, read all instructions i can find.

would be great for any other info or help.

thanks
The physics are simple. If the tail rotor pitch changes and the blades are spinning fast enough the tail rotor will move the boom. Insure the pitch is changing by moving the boom left and right with the motor off to see if the pitch is changing when you move the boom. Everyone wants to f.... with the gyro and that is the biggest mistake. Look for the physical problem first.
Your tail boom might be loose in the frame. holding the tail section in one hand and the frame in the other hand pull and twist the tail section to see if it is held tightly in the frame or is it loose? The belt must be very taut behind the main gear. Check the main gear for broken teeth. What method was used to insure that the pinion gear is the proper distance from the main gear. Are you sure that some of the teeth on the new main gear are not sheared down? Is the main gear installed upside down? Also often the tail rotor holder comes loose from the transmission shaft. Hold the main gear with one hand and using slight pressure from one finger see if the tail rotor holder is firmly held on the tail rotor transmission shaft. The answer is simple; the tail is not changing pitch under power and if it is it is not doing it with any authority because it is losing traction.

And here is the big question. How can you assume it was working correctly at the time of the first flight? Have you bound your Tx to his receiver to see if it is a bad Tx causing this or a Tx that is not configured correctly? What system do you have ? Sky 701, or 702 or 703 or 705 Transmitter. It was test flown at the factory, but did it get damaged in shipment? Was it test flown by the dealer and certified by them as suitable for sale?

We sell hundreds of these a year. Every single one spends 3 hours on our bench before it is sold to the buyer; each one is calibrated and tested before we ship it. EVERY SINGLE one we have sold has required some sort of adjustment to make it fly as it should. Some have had a broken transmitter. Some worked perfect but one of the trims would not work. Some had the head space incorrect between the main gear and the pinion.
....and the list goes on. However we have yet to see a bad gyro.

Why not contact the dealer for help? After all they sold it; don't they have any support desk or repair service or help? They got the revenue from the sale. We also like to make revenue from sales, but what good is it without after the sale service to the buyer?

Max
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