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Old Jan 17, 2016, 07:59 AM
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F5B Energy Telemetry

A short video showing how the new F5B telemetry is setup and installed in a typical model---more to come
F5B TLM (9 min 33 sec)


Steve
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Old Jan 17, 2016, 11:46 AM
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What are the dimensions of the current sensor?
It looks quite bulky compared of the SM one.

What is the sampling rate of the unit? Can you please make it have the same functionality (i.e. Logging) as the UniLog? So we won't need to put in two devices for the same purpose....

So by using this unit I will lose my telemetry information as long as I do not put a UniLog 2 in there too. Great. As these planes have so much room....*sigh*

When will it be available for the public? What is the price point?
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Old Jan 17, 2016, 01:02 PM
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Can we have a current sensor with the correct polarity for the rest of up please?

How's the accuracy and reliability of the unit now?

Steve.
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Old Jan 17, 2016, 10:16 PM
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pictures

Hi all,

Here are some pictures that show the sizes of the airborne components. The components fit in the rather tight B14 Avionik easily enough.

*Current sensor and electronics--including cables weigh 25 grams.
* No connections to the radio system--power comes from motor battery.
*Log file saved for later download using ground unit and PC.
* Accuracy meets the F5B 2% requirements.
*"Practice" units are exactly the same as contest units---but have different and unique coded identifiers.
*Airborne "practice" units $85(current sensor and transmitter)
*Ground units(exact same as used in contest) includes receiver and display-$90. One ground unit can be used programmed for use with any airborne unit.
*CE certification
*available in early February.
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Old Jan 18, 2016, 12:58 AM
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Thanks Steve.

And the availability of a current sensor of the other polarity for the rest of us?

Also has anything been done with the course software that we all use to allow it to deal with the points reduction based on xx W/mins over 1750?

Steve
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Old Jan 18, 2016, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneu View Post
*Log file saved for later download using ground unit and PC.
* Accuracy meets the F5B 2% requirements.
*"Practice" units are exactly the same as contest units---but have different and unique coded identifiers.
*Airborne "practice" units $85(current sensor and transmitter)
Thanks Steve

Few comments/questions
  1. Reverse polarity - I don't think people will be happy using gender benders if they have a "backwards" setup. Will there be an option to purchase reverse polarity?
  2. Log File - Is it possible for competitors to be given this data? Maybe only from the practice units? Rather than using the SM and logger in the plane?
  3. Practice units - Are these uniquely coded so people cannot swap them for a contest unit?
  4. On the Speedfire 2 there is a window of ~6cm where there is no carbon. We fly internal 2.4GHz aerials in there with no known issues. Would you think the unit would work internally in there also?
  5. Has there been thought given to how the helpers will view the wmins during the distance task? If the unit is sitting with the computer in the CD's tent then that could easily be 50+m away. I presume during the duration the unit will be very close to the pilot.

Alan
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Last edited by Alan Flockhart; Jan 18, 2016 at 02:49 AM. Reason: Helpers wmin
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Old Jan 18, 2016, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by steveburns View Post
Thanks Steve.

And the availability of a current sensor of the other polarity for the rest of us?

Also has anything been done with the course software that we all use to allow it to deal with the points reduction based on xx W/mins over 1750?

Steve
Course software is from Germany - I'm in the process of sourcing it....
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Old Jan 18, 2016, 06:05 AM
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Steve,

Thanks for posting this, good to have some tangible information on the telemetry unit which has been the topic of many a discussion.

Not surprisingly there are a few questions:
1. What the transmitting power of the TX unit? If I'm not mistaken it should be <10mW to be legal in EU and although I'm sure it's been taken into consideration would you confirm so pilots know they're compliant?
2. In the video the telemetry unit seems to detect the motor-on condition significantly later than the rx signal. It seems there's either a delay or a threshold (500W?) before the telemetry unit signals the motor on condition?
3. Good to see an arrangement has been made for the back-up model. However can the telemetry unit be set-up for a separate throttle range for the back-up model?
4. The log function is quite interesting and I guess necessary since the ST files of the scoring program will now be rendered useless. How are the logs downloaded and how many flights are stored in the telemetry unit?
5. What has been done to improve accuracy? The existing limiters seem to be based on the same measuring technology as this telemetry unit (Hall sensor), and have been known to need some calibration to be within the 2% range. Is the measuring technology in the telemetry significantly different to the limiters?
6. Would it be possible to post the exact dimensions of the current sensor? Quite a few HV pilots have the Unilog shunt on top of the front pack, but this shunt be it narrower, seems to be a bit thicker and may not fit in the plane in such an arrangement. The image gives an indication, but some exact dimensions would help understand if the unit would even fit.

Sorry, a whole of questions.. as more is learnt about these devices it will allow pilots to make informed choices towards setups of equipment in the plane and choice of lipo to accommodate the extra gear in the plane..

Gerben
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Old Jan 18, 2016, 12:44 PM
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Case of curiosity killed the cat here

What is the 2nd RX (course) for? I was under the impression that the wmin being measured would replace the need for the 2nd RX.

Are there plans to integrate the Gas Box and this unit into one? Bit unwieldy having the 2 units.
I especially notice that there are a number of button presses which need to be done in the right order. Even with the 2 on the Gas Box people get them wrong so it will need to be a very well drilled set of helpers on the start line to ensure things run smoothly when you are putting 80-100 pilots through each day.
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Old Jan 18, 2016, 04:19 PM
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Good questions Gerben.

What is the sampling rate of the unit?
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Last edited by JAyThaRevo; Jan 18, 2016 at 04:27 PM.
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Old Jan 18, 2016, 09:12 PM
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I will try to answer a few of the questions---but some will have to wait.

The current sensor bidirectional so we should be able to have the same connector setup regardless of which side of the road you drive Not sure if feature will make it out in the first units however.

Log files and such can be collected and viewed by anyone with a ground unit set to the ID of the pilot of interest. All units will have this feature.

The practice airborne units will have different ID codes from the contest units---the ground units are able to be used with both types of airborne units so you can use your personal ground unit at the flight line to check energy use during the distance flight.

The second RX is used as a backup in case of momentary data dropouts. If the data from the plane is good it takes priority.

It would make sense that the telemetry ground unit replace the Gass boxes ---but that is a whole different project. Seems to me that the current scoring setup should be redone from scratch.

Data sampling rate?? Between 30 and 100/second depending on operating mode.

Steve
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Old Jan 19, 2016, 01:45 AM
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Steve, if the sensor is bidirectional, one might think it would record current both while running and also during braking. At which moment does the telemetry unit signal a motor off?
When current <0 or when braking is done?
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Old Jan 19, 2016, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneu View Post
The practice airborne units will have different ID codes from the contest units---the ground units are able to be used with both types of airborne units so you can use your personal ground unit at the flight line to check energy use during the distance flight.
So basically I am able to Log other pilots too as long as I know their IDs?
That should be fun xD
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Old Jan 19, 2016, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAyThaRevo View Post
So basically I am able to Log other pilots too as long as I know their IDs?
That should be fun xD
We need some kind of fan boost like they have in Formula E Give certain pilots another 50-100 wmins.

But it is good to finally know how your competitors are doing with energy levels. We have always been able to time people and count the leg scores & landing. But we have not known how close to the 1750 they are flying - Ideally the wmins for the pilots in the air would be shown on a big board (which one can see from a distance) which has
Name - Time (inclusive from start) - Legs - Wmin

Needing Red Bull to sponsor us here me thinks as that won't be very cheap.
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Old Jan 19, 2016, 04:02 AM
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With the limiter it is easy, if a competitor lands at 5mins they have used too much energy.. just need a stopwatch for that.
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