Michael (ARFs, Foamies, Pat Tritle Short Kits, scratch build)

Originally Posted by AndyKunz

Hi Robert,

I already answered your "why" question in my previous post.
SNIP
Andy

Having a bad day?

I don't want to see a bunch of foam things being built. I stay away from most of that stuff because I don't care for foam. If it was all lumped into one place I and others would never be able to find what we are interested in. I can go in the the Balsa and Lite Ply Scratch and Kit Build Forum and find what interests me without wading through a bunch of stuff that I have no use for.

FYI I'm not bashing you foam guys I have some myself.

Not sure what the hostility is? Why not try it out? It's not going to kill any baby seals it's just a forum.

Robert

Originally Posted by AndyKunz

Hi Robert,

I already answered your "why" question in my previous post. I guess you need more detail, so I will allow you to infer it from the following nominations.

I hereby nominate YOU to sort through THIS forum and identify all the non-building-related threads to the new forum.

I also nominate YOU to keep track of both forums, and report when items appear in the wrong forum.

Finally, I nominate YOU to teach people how to properly organize their thoughts so that TECHNIQUES appear in one forum, since they could not possibly be confused with MATERIALS.

Honestly, I think having the foam guys in separate forums is exactly the reason that people think "building is dying." If the foam guys were part of this forum, this thread would have been closed ages ago for its very obvious invalid concept.

By separating into various forums (and thereby separating the builders) the following occur:

1) The myth that "building is dying" is promulagated,
2) The cross-pollination that should be occurring between users of different materials is hindered,
3) Builders begin to assume they're each a Tigger ("I'm the only one") and they can more-easily be discouraged.

Now, you tell me what part about separating into Yet Another Forum is SMART?

Andy

The truth be told, I recall offering foam builders an invite to post links to their builds; or, actual build threads, here on this thread. It seems to me that my invite was more; or, less ignored,. Excepting those foam builders who feel that the traditional building materials are dead and we should learn to accept change!

This is my hobby, why should I learn to except methods that I don't find as enjoyable as the way I like doing them? I don't understand the ill will about this. So, I guess I think they should go their way and I'll go mine!

Geez, I fail to check in to this thread for a couple of weeks and it goes all squirrelly. Since when did "foam" become synonymous with ARF, and balsa with building? I see plenty of balsa ARFs out there, and I'll defy anyone to refute my claim that this foamie isn't a "build":

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1550827

Unless we all just want to retreat to the position of "only what I do is right", it seems to me a little more open-mindedness would go a long way to fostering interest in the building aspect of our hobby. I wouldn't care less if someone told me he was going to build a model out of cardboard; it would still be building, and that's what this thread is supposed to be about...

Steve

But the majority are more interested in building with Balsa here. Nothing wrong with building with foam that's why they have THEIR own forum. Two of them actually. I don't personally want to take that away. I think it's cool that people are building with whatever they have available.

I'm not going to go to the foam build and put down the guy because he is building with foam. It think it's cool what he is doing. I prefer not to build with foam. No matter what you say the traditional building method of RC planes was/is balsa.

I personally think it's great that somebody is building something that can fly. I don't care if it is foam or balsa, cardboard or even matchsticks. There is a large group of us interested in building with balsa. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with having our own forum for wood building?

Robert

Originally Posted by Steve85

Geez, I fail to check in to this thread for a couple of weeks and it goes all squirrelly. Since when did "foam" become synonymous with ARF, and balsa with building? I see plenty of balsa ARFs out there, and I'll defy anyone to refute my claim that this foamie isn't a "build":

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1550827

Unless we all just want to retreat to the position of "only what I do is right", it seems to me a little more open-mindedness would go a long way to fostering interest in the building aspect of our hobby. I wouldn't care less if someone told me he was going to build a model out of cardboard; it would still be building, and that's what this thread is supposed to be about...

Steve

There is a big difference between taking traditional building methods and modifying them for foam, and cutting out a profile fuselage with a flat plate wing.

I get the feeling that people build these simple foam airplanes because it is cheap and easy, not because they like building.

No matter the material... building is building.

Thats what i was thinking

Foam, balsa, ply, paper, fibreglass, carbon fibre or otherwise...

...just build the f***ing thing and fly the wings off it.

You fly hard, you die hard, and you build and you build...

... because its AWESOME to rock up with something that YOU built and fly it.

If you can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards.

Checkmate!

- boingk

Originally Posted by kingconsulting

Having a bad day?

...

FYI I'm not bashing you foam guys I have some myself.

Not sure what the hostility is? Why not try it out?

No hostility, Robert, at least not from me (I assume you meant me because you quoted my post).

I grew up building with balsa. I use wood almost exclusively, but there are times I use foam because it's the right tool for the job in some circumstances. Other times I use glass or carbon or kevlar or plastic or metals for the same reason. You see, I used to manufacture airplane kits and boats too (as well as the electronics I do), so when it comes to materials it's based on what is right for the application.

As for "trying it out" perhaps you should read one of my construction articles in a magazine, or check out the several build threads I've done. I have a new article coming out in a few months that I'm still working on. It's based on wood, but also include molding a canopy from battery heat shrink tubing.

I'm a MODELER, not a "balsa guy" or a "foam guy." As such, I really like to be able to cross over skills and tools and techniques. Sometimes the "balsa guys" and "foam guys" tend to have the mentality that every problem is a nail, because the only tool they know how to use is a hammer.

I see the proposed forum as one which would help people to stay in that narrow mindset, rather than exploring alternatives.

I use aircraft grade birch ply, not lite ply; does that matter in your new forum proposal? I also use a variety of other woods in my aircraft, too - balsa, birch, spruce, oak, hickory, walnut, cherry, poplar, and more. You might want to consider the proposed name as something needing fixing too.

Andy

By "trying it out" I meant let's try the forum and see how it works...

My hobby time is limited sometimes and I want to find what I want without wading through a 100 posts of people building with $ tree foam. When I'm looking for some ideas for a foam plane I'll go there. When I want to see balsa building I would go to this forum.

Again I have no problem with foam stuff I think it's neat. Anything that flies is neat too. Even the plywood plane I built in my backyard when I was a kid. Just wasn't smart enough then to realize that it had to fit through the gate

I think they could take out the "lite" part and just leave ply. Ply is ply doesn't matter what kind it is.

Robert

Originally Posted by Steve85

Geez, I fail to check in to this thread for a couple of weeks and it goes all squirrelly. Since when did "foam" become synonymous with ARF, and balsa with building? I see plenty of balsa ARFs out there, and I'll defy anyone to refute my claim that this foamie isn't a "build":

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1550827

Unless we all just want to retreat to the position of "only what I do is right", it seems to me a little more open-mindedness would go a long way to fostering interest in the building aspect of our hobby. I wouldn't care less if someone told me he was going to build a model out of cardboard; it would still be building, and that's what this thread is supposed to be about...

Steve

Great point Steve and your lancaster looks great . joe

Will the 'Balsa and Lite Ply Scratch and Kit Build Forum' be just for 'fuel', or will electric power be allowed in ?

Will there be sub-divisions for those who just want scale models, or giant scale, or pattern aircraft, or 3D, Fun Fly, or Warbirds, or......... ?

Just wondering were the hell some will put their build threads in future, and how to actually find them.

Some of you guys think its going to be hard to find build threads in this new forum. Do you mean like looking through the builders forum now with guys asking about retracts or wing airfoils or covering tips . Come on guys we keep track of builds in different forums and different sites now with no proplem ,once you subscribe posts are sent to you and its then click and go there. For guys who i know build great airplanes i have seen some posts here that made them look like they were loosing it in their old age. I pmed a guy last week and he said he is subscribed to 400 threads on 4 different sites.I know some here dont want this new forum for what ever reason,but lets not act like you guys are border line slooooow. I know witch threads iam subscribed in and always will till either iam drunk or dead. joe

Based on the last few pages of posts (nothing of which have to do with brigning model building back), I feel its quite obvious there is a lot anger out there. Why I don't know.
1) Why is it important what people build out of....
Important to those who became modelers when other materials simply were'nt available (foam, carbon, etc) and hence have issue possibly accepting new ways of doing things. Does not mean you have to go there. I don't.. .I prefer wood

2) I used to care that ARF Assemblers called thier creations builds. Oh well.. so be it. Now that the mags are called ARFs builds... it's here to stay

One thing that does bother me is getting grief at the field b/c i spend so much time building when I don't have to. Similar to being a very few who fly glow. Our field is in the middle of nowhere so why is that an issue.

I'm guilty of putting my builds in here when they should be in a kit building forum. Foam and balsa can live together peacefully in the same forum... to bad the same can't be said for humans