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Old Mar 10, 2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Hellraser View Post
Maybe we are looking at things differently but I really don't think they lied

for the devo to work across the range of Rx sizes they needed a totally different protocol - the 2801 is a good triple transmitter ie it uses three separate slightly different protocols - now you may know people who are hacking the 9x who are hacking the protocol's but can they have both protocols running and switch between them - I doubt it.
There is no need to do both protocols at the same time because you are not going to be using two receivers at the same time. You'd just add a menu to the user interface to control how it goes about locating a receiver eg. scan for Devo only, scan for both standards one after the other in user selected order, scan for WK2801 only). The Devo radios are completely software driven so there's nothing preventing them from adding WK2801, DSM2 or anything else. The transmitter module they designed for it can do pretty much any standard you want with the right programing. It's not a fixed function radio, it's really a STMicroelectronics touchscreen microcomputer with a pair of joysticks some switches and a programmable transmitter module hooked up to it.

It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, "impossible" to do this.
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Old Mar 10, 2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
There is no need to do them at the same time. It could scan for WK2801 receivers if no Devo receivers are found (you could have the scanning order selectable in the UI) or they could just add a WK2801 checkbox in the user interface, or both (eg. scan for Devo only, scan for both standards in user selected order, scan for WK2801 only). The Devo radios are completely software driven so there's nothing preventing them from adding WK2801, DSM2 or anything else. The transmitter module they designed for it can do pretty much any standard you want with the right programing. It's not a fixed function radio, it's really a STMicroelectronics touchscreen microcomputer with a pair of joysticks some switches and a programmable transmitter module hooked up to it.

It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, "impossible" to do this.
Neither the 2801 nor the DEVO scan for any receivers. They only send out initializing packages for some time, and if there is a rx who listens, that will bind.
So the protocol has to be selected in the UI.
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Old Mar 10, 2012, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by FDR_ View Post
Neither the 2801 nor the DEVO scan for any receivers. They only send out initializing packages for some time, and if there is a rx who listens, that will bind.
So the protocol has to be selected in the UI.
Have it send for a Devo first and if there is no response after a certain amount of time elapses then have it send for WK2801. This would mean a longer bootup so you'd want to be able to just set it to one or the other. A rebind or warm reboot option in the UI would be useful for this so you wouldn't have to cycle the power switch after selecting modes.
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Old Mar 10, 2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
Have it send for a Devo first and if there is no response after a certain amount of time elapses then have it send for WK2801. This would mean a longer bootup so you'd want to be able to just set it to one or the other. A rebind or warm reboot option in the UI would be useful for this so you wouldn't have to cycle the power switch after selecting modes.
I was not clear enough: there is no respond from the tx RX at all!
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Old Mar 10, 2012, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by FDR_ View Post
I was not clear enough: there is no respond from the tx at all!
In that case you'd need to select what mode and ideally have a rebind option.
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by FDR_ View Post
I was not clear enough: there is no respond from the tx RX at all!
I meant no response from te RX offcourse! But you've got it...
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by wowhobbies View Post
Walkera Devo 10 transmitter review video is here.
http://youtu.be/RTWxrQof6HQ

Devo 10 release date is 3/22 and will be available in premium gun metal black version at www.WowHobbies.com
The resolution of the LCD screen of Devo 10 radio is high so it contains graphs like the WK2801-PRO. The screen is also viewable in broad day light because it is backlit. Basically it is like a WK2801-PRO, except it has the additional features which are not commonly found in the traditional 2.4ghz radios. Here we go,

Telemetry which displays voltage, temperature, rpm and GPS info from aircraft
7 point curve
Extra large text which is easy to read for the older generation
Vibration alarm
10 channels including 2 channels with smooth servo control
Upgradable firmware online
30 model memory

There are 3 versions of this radio and all include the new RX1002 ten channel receiver in the package.
Retail Price
$135.95 for basic black plastic version (bare black plastic, no finish)
$139.95 for silver finish version (looks exactly like the Walkera WK2801-Pro)
$149.95 for the gun metal finish version (same anodized finish as the Devo 8s)

We will be carrying the most expensive version, since this version has the expensive look and does not reflect the glare from the sun like the silver finish version.

Jonathan9113
www.WowHobbies.com
Will you be carrying the Devo 10 with the Lady Bird as a package?? Or will we have to order them separably?
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 08:19 PM
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I found this thread because I was just reading this one http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1611869
the next time hope you open a thread like this in the correct section because I did know nothing about a new Devo 10
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 08:27 PM
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I found this thread because I was just reading this one http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1611869
the next time hope you open a thread like this in the correct section because I did know nothing about a new Devo 10
If it was in the radio threads then most of us that are interested in it wouldn't know it was out..
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 08:58 PM
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+1.
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FDR_ View Post
I was not clear enough: there is no respond from the tx RX at all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
Have it send for a Devo first and if there is no response after a certain amount of time elapses then have it send for WK2801. This would mean a longer bootup so you'd want to be able to just set it to one or the other. A rebind or warm reboot option in the UI would be useful for this so you wouldn't have to cycle the power switch after selecting modes.
IMO, there shouldn't be a need for the TX to always blindly send 2 different "handshakes" to a RX, one at a time, in order initialize both types of RX's. Why not ask the User during the TX's Model Entry menu which type of RX that Model has?

I doubt there is any different "handshaking" protocols between the 2801 and Devo TX and RX. I'm new at this stuff, but suspect the TX & RX communication is still 100% the same between the two. What I believe is different between the 2801 and Devo TX/RX is:
  • a 2801 TX only transmits to RX, and its "field" RX only receives info from TX (it's a one way communication path)

  • a Devo TX must ALSO receive telemetry info from the field; therefore, the TX RF module must have receive as well as transmit capability, and likewise the field module(s) must have transmit as well as receive capability.

I'm guessing with either 2801 or Devo, the info being transmitted from the TX to the RX is 100% the same: "X" channels (pulses) worth of PPM (pulsewidth) info being transmitted. Only thing needing to be different is info being received by TX, and maybe it is being received exactly the same way: as an additional "Y" channels of PPM info? If so, there would be no need for any additional handshaking/protocol - just keep on doing the same thing on the same frequencies. For all practical purposes, the only difference between 2801 and Devo might be that the Devo has additional 4 Voltage, Temp, RPM, and GPS info "channels" being sent to TX.

This Devo vs 2801 protocol discussion probably doesn't belong in this Devo 10 thread, but it was already on a roll, and I wanted to give it a "push" and keep the momentum going. If you "hackers" succeed in making the Devo backwards compatible, I'm sure there will be a lot of happy "pirates" out there! ... arrh!
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by i812 View Post
IMO, there shouldn't be a need for the TX to always blindly send 2 different "handshakes" to a RX, one at a time, in order initialize both types of RX's. Why not ask the User during the TX's Model Entry menu which type of RX that Model has?

I doubt there is any different "handshaking" protocols between the 2801 and Devo TX and RX. I'm new at this stuff, but suspect the TX & RX communication is still 100% the same between the two. What I believe is different between the 2801 and Devo TX/RX is:
  • a 2801 TX only transmits to RX, and its "field" RX only receives info from TX (it's a one way communication path)

  • a Devo TX must ALSO receive telemetry info from the field; therefore, the TX RF module must have receive as well as transmit capability, and likewise the field module(s) must have transmit as well as receive capability.

I'm guessing with either 2801 or Devo, the info being transmitted from the TX to the RX is 100% the same: "X" channels (pulses) worth of PPM (pulsewidth) info being transmitted. Only thing needing to be different is info being received by TX, and maybe it is being received exactly the same way: as an additional "Y" channels of PPM info? If so, there would be no need for any additional handshaking/protocol - just keep on doing the same thing on the same frequencies. For all practical purposes, the only difference between 2801 and Devo is Devo has additional 4 Voltage, Temp, RPM, and GPS info "channels" being sent to TX.

This Devo vs 2801 protocol discussion probably doesn't belong in this Devo 10 thread, but it was already on a roll, and I wanted to give it a "push" and keep the momentum going. If you "hackers" succeed in making the Devo backwards compatible, I'm sure there will be a lot of happy "pirates" out there! ... arrh!
No I very much doubt if the protocols are the same - first off the 2801 has three separate but similar protocols for 4 channel, 6 channel and 8 channel

where as the Devo 6, 7, 8, 10 and 12 all use the same protocol with no individual selection protocol.

Like everybody else I would have loved a backwards compatible devo I have many pre-devo models I would love to use with the devo - but even if walkera could of carried it off you would need a 2401 mode, 2601 mode 2801 mode and then a devo mode on top - as they say yesterdays solutions often become tomorrows problems, I honestly think walkera did the right thing by wiping the slate clean and using a completely new platform, in the long-run it would have caused more problems to keep on patching up the old 2801 system.

Regards David
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 12:53 AM
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Here is the link of hobbyone ,they have the actitity of the DEVO10 radio.
http://www.hobbyone.com.hk/cn/infom.jsp?t=5&id=10098
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Hellraser View Post
No I very much doubt if the protocols are the same - first off the 2801 has three separate but similar protocols for 4 channel, 6 channel and 8 channel

where as the Devo 6, 7, 8, 10 and 12 all use the same protocol with no individual selection protocol.

Like everybody else I would have loved a backwards compatible devo I have many pre-devo models I would love to use with the devo - but even if walkera could of carried it off you would need a 2401 mode, 2601 mode 2801 mode and then a devo mode on top - as they say yesterdays solutions often become tomorrows problems, I honestly think walkera did the right thing by wiping the slate clean and using a completely new platform, in the long-run it would have caused more problems to keep on patching up the old 2801 system.

Regards David
Not considering telemetry, in layman's terms imo it's just a matter of language (or dialect or protocol) that the tx puts out for the different rxs to understand.

If it is true that the 2801tx has indeed 3 diff protocols (or dialects of the same language, if you will) which could be selected in the 2801, then this option should also be included in the devo range. i.e. There should be some software or hardware patch that users can just download via usb or just replace (e.g. Like the telemetry upgrade module) to make the old time Walkera customers happy again.

As it is with the supposed singular devo platform, a devo 6 is not able to communicate with a rx701 or rx801, or even transfer model profiles to anything but another devo6. The exclusive peer model communication is I'm guessing the same with the other models.

So apparent internal lack of compatibility within Walkera's devo aside, if they can solve the compatibility grievances of it's supporters between the 2801 and devo ranges, heck, it'd even be a one up against the likes of spektrum with their own differing protocols such as dsm vs dsm2.
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 01:41 AM
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I'm new at the RC protocol, but from what I've recently read, the only difference between 2401, 2601, and 2801 is the number of pulses being transmitted, where essentially the width of the pulse indicates that particular channel's stick position.

A 2801 TX has ALL the capability of talking to all 3 types of RX's. To the best of my newbie knowledge, during Model Setup when we program our 2801 which "mode" to transmit in, all that happens is the "extra" pulses for the channels (stick/switch positions) that won't be transmitted are simply "dropped" from the serially transmitted pulse train. The stick/switch positions are re-measured, the pulse train is updated and re-transmitted 20? times per second.

For instance every 20? seconds, this many pulses are transmitted:

8 channel mode = 8 pulses, with each pulse having a width that corresponds to a channel's "stick" value between MAX and MIN. From what I remember the pulsewidth is a "universal" Servo standard: 1.5 msec +/- 0.5 msec, where 1.5 msec = mid "stick"

6 channel mode = 6 pulses

4 channel mode = 4 pulses

The RX circuitry simply demodulates the pulse train off the RF (microwave) carrier, serially "strips" the pulses off the "train", and sequentially switches the pulsewidths to its appropriate "channel".

Apparently before Devo, if a 4 channel RX received 8 pulses in a "serial" train, it would get confused, so the TX had to be programmed not to transmit extra unwanted/un-used pulses.

Maybe the new Devo RX's have better circuitry, are able to disregard the extra unwanted pulses, and therefore don't need to have the TX pre-programmed to operate in a specific mode?

Someone told me (guessed?) the only reason Devo TX isn't backward compatible is because it waits to receive valid "handshaking" data to be transmitted from the telemetry unit in the field, before the TX completes the initialization routine with the RX in the field. If this is true, and if it was possible, a User could use the Model Setup to pre-program the TX to operate in a certain "mode" (2401, 2601, 2801 just like the old days), and if in that mode, the TX wouldn't require Telemetry validation/handshaking to sucessfully complete initialization, and wouldn't transmit extra unwanted pulses.

Once again, I'm sure this "chat" is OT, and doesn't belong here in this thread. It is probably too basic and "intro" TX stuff to be posted in the "hacking" thread, and I probably won't get any knowledgeable responses posting it anywhere else, so I'll keep on "threading" along in this thread since it currently has "hacker" eyes looking at it.

I think I've reached a plateau where there's not much more mechanical stuff for me to learn about RC Helis, so I'm at a point in my RC training where I'm trying to get a deeper understanding on how the electronics works.

From what I understand, one of the biggest differences between one manufacturer's RC transmitting protocol and another's is whether the pulse trains are transmitted upside down or not, and the ordering of the pulses. Regardless of which protocol is used, the pulsewidths are all universally understood to represent the same value.
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