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Old Jun 13, 2011, 03:57 AM
Tuc
Registered User
Paris, France
Joined Feb 2006
21 Posts
Question
Which 100 sized heli after Solo Pro?

Hi people!

After many RC planes I started the FP indoor helis (more opportunities to practice).
I began with a Nine Eagle Solo 210A (4CH, the coaxial - not the pro version), and really liked it. Just not fast and reactive enough. I did everything I could with it.
So I went to the Solo Pro...fast and reactive...but very unpredictable! The 210A was better, in my opinion. With the Solo Pro I think I am wasting my time.

So what the next step before the CP?

After lots of researches on this forum, I was going to buy a Walkera CB100 and later on going to a 4#3B. But I'm afraid to get bored of the CB100 after a few weeks only...

- Is it reasonable to go directly to the 4#3B without a CB100 transition? (The 4#3B looks to be discontinued on many websites, any information on this?)
- Any other (cheap) RTR suggestion?

Waiting for your precious advises,

Tuc
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 04:05 AM
Did you check the FAQ already?
SoloProFan's Avatar
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I wouldn't go for the 4#3 series, very twitchy heli. The CB100 will fly differently than the Solo Pro, but is still a 45 degree setup. I think a small flybarless FP might be a good next step, like the V100 series, or, if you have a sim as well so you can train on the computer first, a small flybarless CP.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 04:37 AM
2011 - Year of the clones!!!
Frank_fjs's Avatar
Australia, SA, Adelaide
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I wouldn't recommend a 4#3B, the Solo Pro will seem very tame in comparison. It's an older model and one of the first micro fixed pitch helis, they've come a long way since.

Not sure what to recommend as you seem to want a more advanced heli but if you're finding the Solo Pro too unpredictable there really isn't anything easier.

I have both a CB100 and Solo Pro and the Solo Pro is easier for me to fly.

If you want more performance, you sacrifice stability and ease of use.

I'd concentrate on mastering the Solo Pro first.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuc View Post
[...]So I went to the Solo Pro...fast and reactive...but very unpredictable! The 210A was better, in my opinion. With the Solo Pro I think I am wasting my time.[...]
Are you sure there isn't something wrong in your Solo Pro setup? It's well known to be one of the easiest micro fp to tame.
I'm sure if you get a good handling, you'll have fun with it.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 07:24 AM
Tuc
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Paris, France
Joined Feb 2006
21 Posts
Let me make myself clear: it is not a problem of difficulty with the Solo Pro.
Its setup is ok, it is very stable by itself. It perfectly manage to keep it in the air (hover ok) and almost never crash it.

BUT:
- it lists on the right, always. Stable in hover, but still inclined.
- it cannot turn/spin on itself (when using the tail motor - sorry for my poor technical english) without start moving forward in circles
- it has different reactions whether you turn right or left. I mean, it doesn't look like to symmetric in its actions...
- lack of precision in the controls
I saw a lot of messages on forums about the Solo Pro strange behaviour.
I have a Xtreme carbon flybar. It doesn't change the Solo Pro so much.

In conclusion, I would like a more challenging and more precise heli in order to prepare myself for CP helis.

Thanks for your help!

Tuc
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 07:34 AM
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Toronto Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuc View Post
- it lists on the right, always.

Tuc
All single rotor helis with a clockwise rotating main rotor list to the right in hover to compensate for the left force from the tail rotor.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 08:11 AM
Did you check the FAQ already?
SoloProFan's Avatar
The Netherlands
Joined Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuc View Post
Let me make myself clear: it is not a problem of difficulty with the Solo Pro.
Its setup is ok, it is very stable by itself. It perfectly manage to keep it in the air (hover ok) and almost never crash it.

BUT:
- it lists on the right, always. Stable in hover, but still inclined.
- it cannot turn/spin on itself (when using the tail motor - sorry for my poor technical english) without start moving forward in circles
- it has different reactions whether you turn right or left. I mean, it doesn't look like to symmetric in its actions..
.
- lack of precision in the controls
I saw a lot of messages on forums about the Solo Pro strange behaviour.
I have a Xtreme carbon flybar. It doesn't change the Solo Pro so much.

In conclusion, I would like a more challenging and more precise heli in order to prepare myself for CP helis.

Thanks for your help!

Tuc
The Solo Pro demonstrates this "coupling" between rudder and moving forward/backward a lot, because the main board doesn't camouflage it like the mSR does. On the mSR the board automatically adds a little back elevator on a right turn, and forward elevator on a left turn.

However, if that is your main issue with the Solo Pro, get a Bravo SX, this heli achieves almost fully neutral rudder behaviour without any mixes, it turns almost like a coax, but is more agile and faster, due to being single rotor.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 08:34 AM
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Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
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All of those tiny, ultra-light, self-stabilizing helis exhibit some undesirable traits. There were many design issues and compromises made to get a little heli that doesn't fly like a 4#3B. It's hard to imagine why you thought a CF flybar would make a difference. If you want a challenge and precise handling, buy an MCPx or one of the tiny Walkera flybarless models. I think the best thing you can do is to learn more. If you understand RC helis, you will never be surprised by how one handles.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 08:52 AM
2011 - Year of the clones!!!
Frank_fjs's Avatar
Australia, SA, Adelaide
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuc View Post
- it lists on the right, always. Stable in hover, but still inclined.
- it cannot turn/spin on itself (when using the tail motor - sorry for my poor technical english) without start moving forward in circles
- it has different reactions whether you turn right or left. I mean, it doesn't look like to symmetric in its actions...
- lack of precision in the controls
All normal traits for any helicopter in this class. Welcome to the world of micro sized fixed pitch helis.

The CB100 does all of the above. It does have a very different feel about it, compared with a Solo Pro, so you may find you enjoy its flying style more.

Just be aware that those traits aren't exclusive to the Solo Pro, nor do they reflect a problem with its quality or design.

It's all about physics, torque and generated forces:
  • The main rotor spins clockwise. This produces torque that makes the heli want to spin to the left.
  • The tail rotor applies a counteracting force, to prevent the heli from spinning to the left.
  • The counteracting force generated by the tail rotor makes the heli want to push to the left.
  • The swashplate is tilted to the right to counteract the heli wanting to push to the left, from the force generated by the tail rotor.
  • At this point, we have a relatively stable heli, hovering reasonably still but with a slight lean.
  • When you provide a left rudder input, the tail rotor slows down. This allows the torque generated by the main rotor to overpower the counteracting torque generated from the tail rotor, therefore the heli will turn to the left. A side effect of this is that the nose of the heli will tilt upwards a little, thus creating some backwards drift.
  • When you provide a right rudder input, the tail rotor speeds up. This allows the torque generated by the tail rotor to overpower the torque generated by the main rotor, therefore the heli will turn to the right. A side effect of this is that the nose of the heli will tilt down a little, thus creating some forwards drift.

Helicopters become harder to fly as you climb the ranks, but they offer more performance.

So, I'm not sure what to suggest. The CB100 and MSR will have similar traits to the Solo Pro. Some things will be better, some things will be worse, but at the end of the day there's no such thing as an ultra stable do exactly what you command heli - unless you want to go back to a coaxial.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 09:01 AM
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Well, there's always the SRB Quark, if you can find one.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 09:15 AM
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New Jersey
Joined Sep 2009
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I have a V100D01 which I found to be an excellent choice for practicing indoors during winter months. However, it may be too much for someone who has experience limited to a very stable, 45-degree flybar heli.

As a nex step, I would keep in consideration a 4#6S (90-degree flybar with 3-axis gyro). It is one size higher than 100, but actually in the same category of very small helis. It will require a very simple modification of the tail gear mechanism, which actually should contribute to the learning curve. Based on the pilot's skill, it is possible to easily and inexpensively replace the head with a 4#6Bell head (45-degree flybar) if more stability is needed, keep it as is if manageable, or even modify it to 90-degree flybar with Bell-Hiller head, which with a 3-axys gyro would make this little heli a top performer in its category.


PS Other may disagree but I would not recmmend the MSR to anyone planning to progress further. It's a fun and robust heli, but its peculiar flying characteristics are not conductive as other helis to learn how to progress to more advanced skills. As I stated, others may disagree. Yes the Hirobo Quark would be a great choice if you find one.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 09:18 AM
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elan's Avatar
VT
Joined Feb 2006
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So what the next step before the CP?
-If I were you I'd practice, practice, practice on the solo pro; since you already have the model you can use it to upgrade your skills before learning cp. Just a thought...
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 11:09 AM
Tuc
Registered User
Paris, France
Joined Feb 2006
21 Posts
Thanks for all your answers!

I just broke my Solo Pro main shaft, probably due to my new carbon flybar rigidity (and due to one of my living room walls of course ). Waiting for replacement part, I will try to find a second hand CB100 (or a cheap new one) to check the difference by myself.
Then I will keep my favorite one and sell the other one.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 11:19 AM
Did you check the FAQ already?
SoloProFan's Avatar
The Netherlands
Joined Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
All of those tiny, ultra-light, self-stabilizing helis exhibit some undesirable traits. There were many design issues and compromises made to get a little heli that doesn't fly like a 4#3B. It's hard to imagine why you thought a CF flybar would make a difference. If you want a challenge and precise handling, buy an MCPx or one of the tiny Walkera flybarless models. I think the best thing you can do is to learn more. If you understand RC helis, you will never be surprised by how one handles.
The stock flybar is very bendy, and can also flex in-flight. This might reduce accuracy even more. I found my SP to be more stable in a breeze with the CF flybar, less rocking in a gust. But you're right to say it won't negate the effects of the self stabilizing setup.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 11:54 AM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,268 Posts
The Solo Pro and CB100 share the same head design, so the handling characteristics will be very similar. However, the CB100 has considerably more weight, so it carries a lot more inertia, which will effect response.
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