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Old Feb 01, 2010, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai_Shiden View Post
I can respect that, however I'm talking from my own firsthand experience with actual issues. When you can show me documented proof that so many radios were functioning at the same time I'll be glad to read it. That's like saying that you've heard of thousands of DSM2 radios being on around the world at once.

Spektrum has documented that the way it scans channels, if it see 39 radios in use, the 40th radio will not transmit until it sees 2 open channels free up (this is to limit overlap). So in your (flawed) examples of Joe Nall and IRCHA are rediculous (although it would be quite impressive looking if there really were 500 aircraft, or 700 helis in the air at once).

In the case of Spektrum (which is all I was referencing), yes it does happen to utilize 2.4ghz in the same way as our older TX's do, since it doesn't hop, it divides up the band into 80 "channels", and yes, 2 or more radios can overlap and still be fine (due to multipath). FASST using 36 frequency slots and hopping every 2ms acts more like a typical wireless 802.11* network does and has packet collision detection.

The above information is right on Spektrum's faq page: http://www.spektrumrc.com/DSM/FAQ.aspx

Those RF engineers you talked to were working from incomplete information (that you probably gave them, unless you gave them the patent or FCC information on how Spektrum DSM2 works AND gave them time to think it through), therefore their answers are not incorrect to the scope of the information they were given by you. Your questions were probably incorrectly formulated.

Your credentials mean nothing to me, I already read them in another thread you posted in. I'm talking indisputable facts, what your experience is has no bearing on the conversation until you post links to references.

-Kai
Simple obstinance to conceptual dimensions is not reason.
The Articles on the Joe Nall are long since published. Ditto the IRCHA findings at Muncie this year.

YOU go find them I've alrewady read them.
The operative limits are undefined.

BTE what are your credentials. Mine are rather minimal compared to Paul Beard, John Adams, XJet and even others on these threads.

You offer nothibng other than 'But my exoerience has been ......'

Quantify it factually and conceptually. You may not be interested in my so called credentials but I see you have published absolutely zip on yours.

Right now you are attempting to overide the facts presented with sheer noise and apparently very little conceptual undessstanding of SS.

THAT, I am unimpressed with!
I really don't feel that you understand what it is you are trying to promote as "The Understanding" of SS and ts limitations and operating characteristics.

Your statements are selected personal opinions, period.
I've provided some (not all) of the names where thie concepts presented can be verified.

Frankly I doubt that you can present any kind of a factual case for your biases, short of more noise.
Facts and known references please, just as have been provided to you.
Nothing else.


Edit addition: commenting on your post #257 (immediately below)

Translating your comments, you are telling us that you have no credentials of any sort right?
At least I give you credit for not lying about it.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:00 PM
Crazy Heli Technogeek
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No worries OneWasp, I'll just put you on ignore, you still didn't provide links (nice cop out saying search on my own btw ), where I clearly provided one to Spektrum's own FAQ page on how their DSM protocol protects from too many aircraft in the air (cmon, you could at least pulled up the video link to the 73 T-28 trojan demonstration, which goes against their own FAQ, LOL).

I don't need to provide you credentials, this is a forum where none of them can be verified anyways, so it's meaningless. You should have seen enough posts on forums in general that are outright lies about credentials, why should I trust yours anymore than you would trust mine?

I'll happily enjoy the hobby on my own, if you choose to attack me then so be it, I am not going to stoop to your level anymore (to others in the thread, I apologize for taking this troll's bait ).

-Kai
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by HogCrewChief View Post
That is a good article, I read it quite a while back, I do hope they update it soon though, it was written right after Futaba released FASST air radios if I recall. Now that Futaba has populated FASST with a good RX selection, that Spektrum benefit is greatly balanced.

As mentioned before, much of my worry isn't just from the other hobby radios in action, it's also from wireless networks, even cell phones with 802.11*, and any number of other 2.4ghz sources in action around us in everyday life.

-Kai

P.S. One thing often left out of all these discussions, is that 2.4ghz does not penetrate humans (most/many times it's reflections will "bounce" around us though ), we're mostly water after all, and you'll note that microwave ovens are primarily targeted towards heating water and use 2.45ghz.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai_Shiden View Post
P.S. One thing often left out of all these discussions, is that 2.4ghz does not penetrate humans (most/many times it's reflections will "bounce" around us though ), we're mostly water after all, and you'll note that microwave ovens are primarily targeted towards heating water and use 2.45ghz.
Great....maybe my new 8FG will double as a hand warmer in this cold climate i live in......
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jcervantes11 View Post
Well, spektrum failed in my field so spektrum is not in my interest anymore, i haven't seen any futaba fail. thumbs up to futaba and thumbs down for spektrum. I reconmend everyone the futaba 8fg. Oh one thing, has anybody went through looking up the wfly 2.4 radio? http://www.wflysz.com/en/ProductView...200&SortID=137
LOL, like you I live and fly in the real world (not on paper), I got so caught up getting annoyed with OneWasp's annoyingly arrogant commentary that I missed your post .

At this point, I try not to recommend radios in general verbally (although others in my area do copy my setups from time to time, LOL), I choose to let my flying speak for me. When asked, I will answer why I chose it, but I also do not make a one sided argument, I still mention that Spektrum has model match, and a ton of bind and fly aircraft (which are pretty neat, which is why I'm still holding onto my Spektrum AirMod for my 9CHP).

The 2.4ghz band in general is so saturated I kinda wish that there were some 900mhz mainstream options (I'm not ready to go back to 72mhz though , even my experience on Spektrum has been better than that ).

IMO I think that FASST is the most mature 2.4ghz protocol, with lots of development time behind it by a reputable company that has been in the hobby a very long time. If it were nothing more than that I would still give it a chance.

-Kai
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by rcwings View Post
Great....maybe my new 8FG will double as a hand warmer in this cold climate i live in......
ROTFL, we're talking milliwatts versus over a kilowatt (unless you're one of those conspiracy theorists that thinks the black helicopters are coming to take your freedoms away, and cell phones give you brain cancer).

-Kai
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai_Shiden View Post
LOL, like you I live and fly in the real world (not on paper), I got so caught up getting annoyed with OneWasp's annoyingly arrogant commentary that I missed your post .

At this point, I try not to recommend radios in general verbally (although others in my area do copy my setups from time to time, LOL), I choose to let my flying speak for me. When asked, I will answer why I chose it, but I also do not make a one sided argument, I still mention that Spektrum has model match, and a ton of bind and fly aircraft (which are pretty neat, which is why I'm still holding onto my Spektrum AirMod for my 9CHP).

The 2.4ghz band in general is so saturated I kinda wish that there were some 900mhz mainstream options (I'm not ready to go back to 72mhz though , even my experience on Spektrum has been better than that ).

IMO I think that FASST is the most mature 2.4ghz protocol, with lots of development time behind it by a reputable company that has been in the hobby a very long time. If it were nothing more than that I would still give it a chance.

-Kai
Thats why i'm keeping my spektrum dx6i, because those bind and fly mainly because the mini helicopter.Nothing bigger then that lmao.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai_Shiden View Post
ROTFL, we're talking milliwatts versus over a kilowatt (unless you're one of those conspiracy theorists that thinks the black helicopters are coming to take your freedoms away, and cell phones give you brain cancer).

-Kai
I was only joking..........was trying to add some twisted humor.

missed the ROTFL.....
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rcwings View Post
I was only joking..........was trying to add some twisted humor.
No worries, I was joking around too... well, that is unless the black helicopters really are trying to get you (that was another joke as well ).

Edit: Don't mind me, I'm just trying to pass the time till my 8FGH arrives at my work tomorrow (first time in a long time I've been "anxious" to go to work, LOL).

-Kai
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jcervantes11 View Post
Thats why i'm keeping my spektrum dx6i, because those bind and fly mainly because the mini helicopter.Nothing bigger then that lmao.
Hehe, I think my cutoff is going to be about 8oz 3D foamies (that is until I get the rest of my 6oz 3D foamies built to replace the "overweight" ones ).

My biggest heli is a 3.5lb "500" class, that one has scared the living daylights out of me when it has locked out (and this with an AR7000 being powered by a 5A BEC). When the tips of the blades approach 300mph and are made of CF it gets scary very quick when it's not responding to controls.

I've grounded it since last summer for a variety of reasons, one of them the Spektrum issues I've had, the other when I caught the ESC on fire in midair . So much for trying to only run just barely big enough ESC needed to keep it as light as possible, then I upgraded to a higher C pack setup without re-sizing to a larger ESC "Poof" (same capacity and cell count, but I really should have realized that there would be more W available).

-Kai
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai_Shiden View Post
No worries, I was joking around too... well, that is unless the black helicopters really are trying to get you (that was another joke as well ).

Edit: Don't mind me, I'm just trying to pass the time till my 8FGH arrives at my work tomorrow (first time in a long time I've been "anxious" to go to work, LOL).

-Kai
Me...I am looking forward to the next business meeting in the city so I can make a detour to the hobby store in hopes they have an 8FG. Itching to see and handle it. First time in a long time I am looking forward to that painfully congested snowy drive
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Old Feb 02, 2010, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kai_Shiden View Post
Hehe, I think my cutoff is going to be about 8oz 3D foamies (that is until I get the rest of my 6oz 3D foamies built to replace the "overweight" ones ).

My biggest heli is a 3.5lb "500" class, that one has scared the living daylights out of me when it has locked out (and this with an AR7000 being powered by a 5A BEC). When the tips of the blades approach 300mph and are made of CF it gets scary very quick when it's not responding to controls.

I've grounded it since last summer for a variety of reasons, one of them the Spektrum issues I've had, the other when I caught the ESC on fire in midair . So much for trying to only run just barely big enough ESC needed to keep it as light as possible, then I upgraded to a higher C pack setup without re-sizing to a larger ESC "Poof" (same capacity and cell count, but I really should have realized that there would be more W available).

-Kai

haha
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Old Feb 02, 2010, 01:39 AM
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Old Feb 02, 2010, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by DougV View Post
You welcome Pete.

Kai_Shiden: Futaba FASST uses 36 channels from the band.

Doug.
Well, I was under impression that FASST uses 72 channels...giving 5 times redundancy. ie. even better!

Is this correct? http://www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/24scanner.htm

/Jonas Ekman
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Old Feb 02, 2010, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by oakman7004 View Post
Well, I was under impression that FASST uses 72 channels...giving 5 times redundancy. ie. even better!

Is this correct? http://www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/24scanner.htm

/Jonas Ekman
God damn geeks
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