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Old Jan 30, 2016, 06:13 AM
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Jay
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Jan 2012
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Build Log
Stark from LDModels

I've just ordered one of these sweet looking models for delivery in about 6 weeks... already getting excited

I will be starting the build log proper once the kit arrives but I would like to kick off some pre-build discussion and consolidate other people's experiences with this glider.

I have only been into DLG for about 18 months and started with a HobbyKing Versus V1 (Topsky). A pretty successful build and a good entry level glider to get me interested. That glider soon died a premature death after the boom snapped off the fuselage during a launch. It was pretty much unrepairable but then I picked up the Versus V2 disser version during a HobbyKing sale. This is my current DLG and I am quite happy with it's performance but when the Stark come up at a price that I could not refuse, it was time to step up to competition class models.

With my order placed for the Stark and 6 weeks or so before delivery, I wanted get prepared with a build plan and parts ready for when it arrives.
The first decision I need to make is 4 in the pod or top drive servo arrangement. This will determine the servos I need to get.

My first thoughts were for 4 in the pod and use 4 x MKS HV6100 Servos as I want to run directly off a 2S LiPo.
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If anyone is familiar with the Stark, can you please advise if there is enough room in the fuselage for 4 of those servos?

My second choice servo would be the KST X08 V3 HV Servo as they are a little smaller but have heard of some unreliability issues...

Anyway, I hope this thread can stir up some discussion over the coming weeks so I can make some well informed decisions and build this glider to it's full potential. As well as share my experiences putting it all together once it arrives.

Cheers,
Jay
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Old Jan 30, 2016, 07:18 AM
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In F3J size does matter!
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Israel
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For information on the Stark, look in yhe Stark thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ighlight=Stark

I did a 4 in a pod installation in the stark and it is very tight, I doubt you would fit 4 6100's in there, the KST08 are possible
Look at my install here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=167

I remember there was another 4 in a pod install in the thread, go through it and you will find it

Roy
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Old Jan 30, 2016, 11:48 AM
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Okay, I'm going to bite. Roy, what did you actually save in AUW by going 4 in pod vs. 2 in wing/2 in pod? I'm debating a 4-in-pod setup in an Akcent-2 fuselage (I think this is the same as the Stark fuse, or at least darn close, especially in the area for the servos) with a light wing and light tails to bring the AUW down even further, but are we talking 5g or 15g? It's a lot of work for me because I can do top drive in under an hour and I've already spent 5 thinking about cramming the KST X08's plus Airtronics 94800's in the fuse.
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Old Jan 30, 2016, 01:43 PM
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Weight save in a "4 in a pod" is basically a question of how much forward can you bring the servos relative to their original place in the wing.
On most top drive installations the servos are very close to the CG, moving them to the nose gives between 10 to 15 cm more forward position (depending on the design of the model). So you move 16-18 grams of servos (depending on servo choice), about 10 to 15 cm out of 25 to 30 cm of CG to nose. This means that in extreme cases you can take 10 grams out the nose just because of the servos being placed forward.
The rest of the install is about the same weight, harness, top drive pushrods and horns weigh about the same as servo tray, pushrods and brass horns in a "4 in a pod installation".
Sometimes the servo install in the wing is behind the CG so you can save more weight moving them forward, sometimes they're forward of the CG so you save less.

If you can remove the reinforcements for a top drive installation from the wing (not build them in to begin with) you can probably save another couple of grams.

I've been keeping an Excel spread sheet of ALL my builds since 2009 and I've built over 30 models for myself and others since then and I can predict the weight of the model before I start the build within a few grams. My experience so far has shown that the difference averages around 10 grams for most models with some dropping to only 7 (my super light Vortex) and some going up to about 14 (a light Twister 3 I had).

The stark allows the servos to move quite a bit forward of the original install (very forward canopy) so you can save 14 grams easily. In the Stark I built I had a heavy wing from Textreme 80 and a heavy fuse. When I calculated the weight for a conventional build I ended up around 295, finished "4 in a pod" build was closer to 280 grams. Later I also replaced the heavy tails I had and brought the weight down to 270 grams.

Roy
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Old Jan 30, 2016, 02:11 PM
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I built 2 carbon Starks from about 1.5 years ago, the weights were I think 275g and 274g AUW with DS09 in wings TD, and JR285 for rudder D188 for Elevator - both pull spring. 6255 Rx and Shread 450 lipo. Great flying airplane as is. I'm not sure how much benefit will be in lowering the weight, but maybe it will improve float time in calm air.

Have fun with the Stark, good choice.

Jason
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Old Jan 30, 2016, 03:38 PM
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My wing was heavy at 138.5 grams empty.
I've seen other Starks around 265 grams and a super light Stark at 250 grams which were really fantastic models in light air.
If you can build this model down below 265 you'll have a great allrounder.
Roy
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Old Jan 30, 2016, 05:53 PM
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Roy,

Any chance you can post that spreadsheet of predicted weights? As a builder I'm always striving to achieve the weights of production ships.
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Old Jan 30, 2016, 09:30 PM
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Jay
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
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Roy,
Thanks for the heads up. I've gone over that thread and saw your install - it does look tight. I didn't want to start the whole 4 vs 2 in pod debate here, just looking for detail on how to get it done. Yours and everyone else's opinion is valued greatly and ultimately it's something I'll have to decide myself which way I go. I like the challenge of finding new ways of doing things, even if it's just combining or tweaking the way it's been done before.
The version I've ordered is the full carbon 60 textreme. I haven't come across any build threads specific to that version - not that I imagine there would be much difference.

My motivation for trying a 4 in the pod method is purely a personal one due to the following:
  • Never done 4 in the pod before
  • Possibility of weight saving
  • Less complicated wiring (wing join plugs etc.)
  • Won't have to cut into those beautiful wings
If I can't gather enough info to be confident of a successful 4 in the pod solution, I don't have any problem with building it with a conventional top drive solution. That method is very well documented by Oleg in the other thread.

So my main priority is to determine what is a viable combination of servos that could be used in a 4 in the pod configuration. I'm aiming for a HV solution as mentioned before so that might limit my choices. Ideally I should just wait till I get the fuselage in my hands and try mock ups with various shapes and sizes but I'm trying to get ahead of that and have some servos delivered prior to the Stark's arrival so I can get straight into it.
Keep the comments and discussion coming

Cheers,
Jay
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 10:46 AM
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Samuel
Taiwan, Kaohsiung City
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Seems like a lot of pilots also caught the amazing offer from LD Models of the Stark. And a lot of us from Taiwan as well. 9 Starks on order and what I heard from Dmitriy is that he has changed the fabrics on his full carbon models. 65gram Textreme and Carbonline .. Which turn out way light It has been a real fun placing an order with Dmitriy as he is very helpful and a fast response on every question I gave him.
I heard that the new wings will come out 110~115g for the Carbonline wings and Textreme at around 120~125g. I will also do an complete build log of the Stark with an 4 in pod configuration as well. With 2 MKS6100 and 2 D47 I am aiming for an AUW of about 240~250g with the Carbonline Model~

By the way Jay you can use 2 HV 6100 and 2 D47 on 7.4V without any problems

Cheers ,Sam
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 01:07 PM
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How do stark and smile compaire?
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 02:17 PM
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Wow I just saw that sale price and contacted Dmitiry, hopefully he still honors it...guess everyone was keeping it a secret!!

The ones I've seen in person are amazing models, up there with the best in fit and finish, just limited availability....

As compared to a Smile (165mm root chord), Stark is a normal aspect ratio design (180mm root chord), I think closer to Stream than anything else. That may mean lower launch heights. However, the Akcent-2 was also a normal aspect ratio design and one of the best planes I've ever flown in turbulence...Stark only improved upon those features from what I know. I could launch Akcent-2 to over 200' with a glass/disser wing...full carbon Stark should be higher than that.
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 02:38 PM
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I just ordered one also,at least I think I did. Filled out the form and clicked order and rec'd an order complete message on the web site. However no confirmation email and no CC info requested
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samc99us View Post
Roy,

Any chance you can post that spreadsheet of predicted weights? As a builder I'm always striving to achieve the weights of production ships.
It isn't a "predictive" spread sheet where I calculate nose weight and such but rather compilation of weight break downs of my builds over the years. If you're interested I can send it to you.
Roy
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allanp View Post
I just ordered one also,at least I think I did. Filled out the form and clicked order and rec'd an order complete message on the web site. However no confirmation email and no CC info requested
I ordered one on Saturday afternoon and he got back to me at 12 a.m. California time that he said at that time that the sale was still on delivery sometime in March looks like a great deal good luck. Don
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Old Jan 31, 2016, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donald s View Post
I ordered one on Saturday afternoon and he got back to me at 12 a.m. California time that he said at that time that the sale was still on delivery sometime in March looks like a great deal good luck. Don
Okay,Thanks
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