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Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:55 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
3,454 Posts
Build Log
Super Sportster 60 - Serious Bash

I usually post in RCU under kitbuilder but with this newe-er forum for builders I thought I would contribute with what I think is an interesting idea. With all my birds currently in "flyable" condition, I'm embarking on something I have been watiing to do for a bit. I enjoy the period from WWI through the Golden Age and thought I would take a Super Sportster kit I have and create a sort of fantasy scale golden age racer. I have built and modified many kits over the years but none to this extent. While the model will not be easily recognizable as a SS60, I don't plan to change the basic aerodynamic layout in order to hopefully ensure a successful outcome.

I picked the SS60 due to it having things that would help me out. I like fixed gear in the wings and this has them. Adding streamline struts, etc will also not be to bad. It's a very stable yet aerobatic design so moving the cockpit back a bit for example, rounding the fuselage, adding low profile faux ribs to the empenage top and bottom will enhance looks but should not get me in trouble. This will be my biggest bash to date so I'm all ears for questions, comments when I have questions and sly remarks .

I'm not a dot the 'i', cross the 't' kind of person so I plan to build as I go with the end result currently in my head. I find it more fun this way. I generally use the "that looks about right" method unless it requires actual calculations. For example switching from a standard tail to a V, etc. I've given some thought as to how I'll achieve some things like the rounded fuse. I would love to invert my 60 with the thrust line up high like say in a Gee Bee "D" but dont think thats a good idea as I do not profess to be any sort expert on thrust lines or things aerodynamic and this would be asking for trouble. Current plan is to mount at 270 degress so head and muffler are both down and away. Using an exhaust diverter I'll be able to route directly out the bottom.Perhaps some type of ring around the nose?

The purist in me says you have a real nice classic kit here and your going to do what??. But embark I must to satisfy my love of building and doing something a bit different I cleaned up the bench... and opened the box today. Not sure about the rest of you but each time I do I get a big smile and I'm transported way back to my first build in the mid 70's. A clueless kid who with help pulled off a nice flying M.E.N Trainer. I remember moving the sticks on my Kraft radio to watch the surfaces move before it was even close to flying.... but I digress.

So after I took a big whiff of all that balsa and ply..... it's off the cliff I leap. I'll start with the tail as I always do.
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Last edited by Thermalin; Jun 16, 2013 at 05:10 PM.
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 05:43 PM
Registered User
United States, KY, Taylorsville
Joined Mar 2010
1,636 Posts
How about a Lloyd Butz 'Butz Special'? Open cockpit, wheel pants and different tail feather outlines with overall silver color with black 'N' numbers. It matches the overall outlines of the Sportster pretty good. I have a .bmp 3-view if you want it. Just send e-m addy via PM.
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 06:43 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
3,454 Posts
Cannot find any "images" of the Butz Special, Lloyd Butz Special, etc...i'll send..
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 06:48 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
You're on the right track with this good flying kit - change the appearance some, don't mess with the important numbers and shapes. Bin there, done that plenty...

Inverting the engine isn't that much of a problem - being happy with your engine choice starting, running and idling inverted is probably the biggest issue for a sports flying model. I'd be looking at putting the new thrustline on or just below the fuselage side's top edge. Making sure the engine mount fits onto the firewall with space for a cowling is important too.

Thrustline? I'd just keep down and side- thrusts as per the kit. The slight raising of the thrustline will add what amounts to a little more downthrust, the sidethrust will do fine at either height.

A radial cowl ring would be neat, but adding that area and drag to the nose could be too much fun. Add UC leg fairings and racy spats, I'd be looking at upping the vertical stab area. Not that I've ever come across an aerobatic model that didn't get better 'cos I'd fitted a bigger rudder...

Great project, get stuck in and have fun with it. It's only one step from starting with a blank sheet of paper/CAD file too.

D
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 09:10 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
3,454 Posts
So increase the rudder a bit - just because... or due the increased area of the UC?

I really like the Gee Bee E and was thinking of that type cowl ring if I do anything at all... plus that motor location would not need any up or down movement. I do like the look of a headrest fairing back to the vertical stab also.
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 07:50 AM
ARFs Are Me
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Traverse City, Michigan
Joined Dec 2005
11,610 Posts
This is going to be a neat project. !

My first Sporster was turned into a dual cockpit PT-19. If I build another, which would be my 4th, it will be an Me-109. (I'm currently rebuilding Sportster #3)
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 01:15 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
3,454 Posts
FYI... this is the design that got me thinking about bashing the SS.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/1...rE_Article.pdf

This design has nice lines, I like:
1) The overall sideview
2) The rearward, open cockpit
3) Round the fuselage... basic build with formers \ stringers on top.(lightening holes?)
3) Will want to add a headrest fairing with "shoulders" where it meets the fuse blending into the vertical stab
4) Add streamlining / fairing to the LG struts and connect just past the midpoint on the pants
(Found an article in an older RCM on adding simple - sort of, shock absorption - we'll see)
5) Faux ribs on empenage
6) Round the rear of the wingtips more into the wing, smoother curve - not much... just a bit so it doesn't look so stock.
7) Open to raising the motor but not to much - I think amount needed to come out looking 'similar" to the Mister E is doable. Need to see if fuse sides/firewall are designed for pre-determined downthrust. If so, per derrick I'd need to remove some... I would prefer to leave the engineering of the nose alone and just shims - would be much easier.

I build over upside down 2x4 ceiling tiles on my leveled bench and realized I was out last night when I start.. Will pick up some in a bit.

Question:
With the planned rounding of the fuse via formers and stringers, is it better to cut lightening holes under formers or between them. Specs say .45 to .61 so I'm at the upper range with the OS .61 I plan to use. I don't think much weight will be added but the majority of it will be aft of the CG and I figure I'd remove what I could.
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Last edited by Thermalin; Jun 17, 2013 at 01:39 PM. Reason: I
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 03:26 PM
ARFs Are Me
TomCrump's Avatar
Traverse City, Michigan
Joined Dec 2005
11,610 Posts
Anything that you can do to lighten the aft fuselage is a good thing. These things build tail heavy.

I put a .91 Surpass in mine, and it still required a heavy hub, and forward mounted battery to achieve balance.
Mine has no side or down thrust. It doesn't need it.

I would not raise the engine. The model flie fine, the way it is designed. If you invert it, I suggest that you maintain the existing thrust line.
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 03:35 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
3,454 Posts
Yes.. understand about not moving it .. but was looking to give it an earlier look with majority of cowl below the hub.

However... with the all the other changes.. that is good advice and I'll abandon thinking on this any longer as the overal design will be sleek lending itself to a more central hub location.

Promise to not get hung up all the talk and start stickin wood together
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 06:52 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Most of my glow powered OD models had upright engines - much less fuss in use.

Bigger rudder/fin? Bit of both, compensating for wheel spat area etc and a little more yaw power. The SS is a good solid design, probably best not to mess too much...

Stringers etc to round her off. Treat them as 'tertiary structure' - decoration, mostly. If you can reduce the primary structure weight, lighter is always better.

As you put it so well -get in there and build it! Having a good looking, good flying model that's different to the herd is neat.

D
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 09:28 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
3,454 Posts
So Lowes used to sell 2x4 cieling tiles individually but not more.. case only at approx 45 bucks and I don't have room for a full case and really don't want to spend 45 beans on it. I picked up 20 x 48 in sheet of flat dense-ish foam as I was looking forward to starting. I have it weighted on each length by desne board but certainly cannot go foward like this. As all I have ever used were cileing tiles weighted at the corners I'm considering using a cut sheet of wallboard as I understand it takes pins well. I'll post some pics of the horiz and vert stab glued up.
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 09:42 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Reckon the best I've ever spent on building gear are my two Guillows balsa building boards. Have one 36" and a 48". Had them for years and they're still flat and usable. Also rigged them for hinges so I can prop one end up to whatever's needed and build a wing with dihedral from the centreline out in one piece.

D
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 11:25 PM
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United States, MD, Frostburg
Joined Aug 2008
1,442 Posts
I had the same problem when I moved out here to Frostburg about 18 months ago. We have one hardware store (also Lowes), and my old cieling tile was so used and old that I needed to replace it. I had no interest in buying a case of them, so I built a new table using one of their doors (I think it was around $35 on sale) and drywall. I cut the drywall to size right there in the store! Total price was less than a case of the tiles. The new building board is great, flat, and big enough to build larger planes on it when that time comes.

Looking forward to your build! I had a SS but sold it last summer. I wish I hadn't now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermalin View Post
So Lowes used to sell 2x4 cieling tiles individually but not more.. case only at approx 45 bucks and I don't have room for a full case and really don't want to spend 45 beans on it. I picked up 20 x 48 in sheet of flat dense-ish foam as I was looking forward to starting. I have it weighted on each length by desne board but certainly cannot go foward like this. As all I have ever used were cileing tiles weighted at the corners I'm considering using a cut sheet of wallboard as I understand it takes pins well. I'll post some pics of the horiz and vert stab glued up.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 04:42 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
3,454 Posts
Drywall it is.... (will really miss my cieling tiles though ) change is good.. change is good

i was using thin sewing type pins.. but think I'll have to go back to T's (thicker) to handle the drywall...
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 06:19 PM
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United States, MD, Elkton
Joined Oct 2011
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You have all of us excited, as most have already kit bashed to some degree..We like it when someone else does it,- brings a fresh burst of "I wanna do that"
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