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Old Dec 04, 2012, 08:35 PM
Which way is up?
stuball56's Avatar
Michigan, USA
Joined Mar 2008
686 Posts
I bought a used one and then a brand new one. The used one had a full metal head and shaft upgrade. I put the shaft and head into the new one after flying it stock. For me it did actualy "fly" better. It seemed more stable and less touchy. I am not an experienced pilot though. So my "review" is based strictly on feel, not anything technical, as I have alot to learn about setting up a heli. But, the aluminum upgrades feel very smooth and even. With both setups I leveled the swash as best I could and set it up the same.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 08:50 PM
Scammers need to go!
HyperHelis's Avatar
Slidell, La
Joined Oct 2006
1,448 Posts
Cool, thanks guys!
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 09:01 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Palos Verdes Peninsula
Joined Dec 2011
1,031 Posts
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Originally Posted by pilot_dragonfly View Post
Hey guys one more quick question. Is it worth buying the metal rotor head(just the head) ? If so, is the xtreme worth it or should I just buy the microheli version?
The biggest benefit of my metal rotor head is it retains the linkage should you crash (has a closed slot vs the open one on the stock plastic head). With the stock one, I was losing a lot of linkages.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 04:49 AM
Martin - AKA mr.sneezy
PLMS's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined May 2004
1,686 Posts
'Hard' start issue ?

I have two MCP X's.
One I got given recently by a flyer who had too many issues with it to want to keep going.
I solved two of his sad issues but am left with a third I didn't anticipate. It won't do a normal soft start on the main rotor motor, it's is either fully on or fully off, no proportional speed control in 'normal' flight mode.

It goes fully on at about 10% pitch stick and does it so hard that the heli flips over on it's side every time. My other MCP X works fine on the same TX and the same model memory, so it's not a TX programming issue. If I hold the heli by hand during the violent spool up it can be flown, so the rest of the 3-in-1 FC board seems to work normally. I've tried rebinding twice or more times...

Has anyone seen this before and know if it's a 3-in-1 board fault or maybe something else ??
Martin
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 09:21 PM
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United States, MA, Sterling
Joined Sep 2009
361 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLMS View Post
I have two MCP X's.
One I got given recently by a flyer who had too many issues with it to want to keep going.
I solved two of his sad issues but am left with a third I didn't anticipate. It won't do a normal soft start on the main rotor motor, it's is either fully on or fully off, no proportional speed control in 'normal' flight mode.

It goes fully on at about 10% pitch stick and does it so hard that the heli flips over on it's side every time. My other MCP X works fine on the same TX and the same model memory, so it's not a TX programming issue. If I hold the heli by hand during the violent spool up it can be flown, so the rest of the 3-in-1 FC board seems to work normally. I've tried rebinding twice or more times...

Has anyone seen this before and know if it's a 3-in-1 board fault or maybe something else ??
Martin
I have something close to that, mine won't spool up until until it gets over half throttle then I seem to have full control. This happened to me after I sent the 3 in1 to get a new FET. I have also replaced the main motor and main gear but nothing seems to work.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 02:18 AM
Martin - AKA mr.sneezy
PLMS's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined May 2004
1,686 Posts
[QUOTE=Beancounter;23453007 This happened to me after I sent the 3 in1 to get a new FET.[/QUOTE]Can you see if you can read the FET's marking ?
I'm curious to see if they used an original part or a different one (there are two side by side BTW on the board for the main rotor motor).

There is a driver transistor between the MCU and the FET. I also wonder now if it's damaged...
Martin
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 01:50 PM
Plane on the Brain
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Joined Apr 2005
840 Posts
Howdy. I picked up a v2 for $99 and got my first 6 packs through it.

I was happy with the power and predictability with rolls, flips, and inverted (nose first) figure 8s especially since there was a constant 4mph wind. I was disappointed with any tail first circuits since i need practice so i don't dork in my 450

I think i will get the extended tail boom next time i'm at the hobby shop, but none-the-less this is a great value. I hope i can keep it in one piece
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 10:29 PM
Martin - AKA mr.sneezy
PLMS's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined May 2004
1,686 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLMS View Post
There is a driver transistor between the MCU and the FET. I also wonder now if it's damaged...
Martin
Quoting myself above. It did not turn out to be the driver transistor at fault, and I have resolved the issue. I used an oscilloscope and probed from the MCU pin through to the FET output under different throttle conditions to find out what was going on.

The resolution was to lower the value of the pull-up resistor on the input of the main motor FET's. The reason that was a problem was that they were replacement FET's and have a higher gate capacitance than the originals. With the original 10K pull-up, the output transistors were not switching off in between PWM pulses. With 5K it's now fine, and the startup is now gentle, maybe even better than my other mcp X with original FET's.

While testing lower value pull-up resistors I noted that at really low values (like 300ohms or so) the amount of throttle stick required for motor startup gets up above half. Which is what beancounter has on his 3-in-1 after it was repaired. It may be that the repairer fitted a new resistor as well as FET's and it's way too low a value...

Normally I find that motor control FET's are driven fully on/off quite hard, but the mcpX 3-in-1 has the pull-up value set to round-off the falling edge of the PWM pulse quite a lot it seems, rather than a square falling edge. This pulse rounding is adjustable by the value of the pull-up resistor, and needs to be changed to suit the type of replacement FET's used, if they are not working like the originals.
Martin
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 04:48 AM
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United Kingdom, Aviemore
Joined Feb 2005
3,244 Posts
Wow having skills like that must come in handy. I wouldn't have a clue where to start and most of that fired clean over my head. Wouldn't it be easier to just replace the FET's with an identical part to avoid all of this? I haven't had to do it yet but I'm sure the time will come at some point.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 06:32 PM
Martin - AKA mr.sneezy
PLMS's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined May 2004
1,686 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aviefly View Post
Wow having skills like that must come in handy. I wouldn't have a clue where to start and most of that fired clean over my head. Wouldn't it be easier to just replace the FET's with an identical part to avoid all of this? I haven't had to do it yet but I'm sure the time will come at some point.
I was fortunate to be in the last batch of properly trained radio technicians in Australia (AFAIK), back in the mid 1980's.
The FET's I used are the higher power of the two commonly suggested (Si2333CDS and Si2315BDS). The Si2333CDS is the one rated at 7.1Amps, and while they are never likely to blow up again it does have about double the gate capacitance, and that is a potential issue unless the pull-up resistor value is halved.
So yep, if I'd picked the Si2315BDS I would have had no issue, but the higher rating of the Si2333CDS got to me
At least now I (we) know how to use the Si2333CDS on the motor side and what the effect of the value of the pull-up resistor is on the start-up characteristic of the motor.
There will be somebody sometime here who will be happy to know the info I guess...
Bye.
Martin
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 07:10 PM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Clayton
Joined Aug 2010
1,580 Posts
Hey guys, how many flights are you averaging on the main motor and a tail motor. I don't do.3d (yet) but I am hard on the collective sometimes.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 07:17 PM
Team Mulikow
Zeta30's Avatar
Joined May 2007
920 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by keithy4129 View Post
Hey guys, how many flights are you averaging on the main motor and a tail motor. I don't do.3d (yet) but I am hard on the collective sometimes.
I've gone through two, the first one lasted about 100 flights the second 80. From what I've read 100 flights is about average.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 07:24 PM
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United States, NJ, Clayton
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Originally Posted by Zeta30 View Post
I've gone through two, the first one lasted about 100 flights the second 80. From what I've read 100 flights is about average.
OK, mine seems okay, I should pick one up to have on hand, how do you know its done, is it a little loss of power or does it just quit? Also, does your tail motor run warm?
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 07:34 PM
Team Mulikow
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Joined May 2007
920 Posts
Mine was a gradual loss of power. When I put in the new motors it was very obvious that the old ones were worn out.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 11:56 PM
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Beancounter's Avatar
United States, MA, Sterling
Joined Sep 2009
361 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLMS View Post
Can you see if you can read the FET's marking ?
I'm curious to see if they used an original part or a different one (there are two side by side BTW on the board for the main rotor motor).

There is a driver transistor between the MCU and the FET. I also wonder now if it's damaged...
Martin
I can't really tell if there is any damage, and to be honest I am not 100% sure which fet was replaced electronics are not in my area of expertise. A which is the whole I had some one else fix it.
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