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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:26 PM
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Got another flight in today. This ship tracks beautifully for a taildragger during takeoff, (heck, I have more trouble keeping a tri-gear ship tracking straight then I have with the Pat).

I mentioned before the roll rate was fast and it is, but it is a little too sensitive around neutral, so will dial in more expo.

Landing approaches are fine until it gets too slow during the flare and then falls to the ground, so airspeed has to be kept up higher than normal. This is due to the high AUW and the KFM-4 airfoil. I say that because I am also flying the Tweety Bird which weighs more and has less wing area, but landings are very predictable and easy to grease on. I think the full airfoil has a lower stall speed then the KFM-4 with higher wing loadings.

I won't get much into the differences in flying qualities between the Pat and Tweety Bird (which is an exact downsized copy of the .60 sized DirtyBirdy), as you cannot compare a former world class aerobatic ship to many sport ships. While I love the smooth and precise flying characteristics of the Tweety Bird, I like sports ships because they have there own personalities and the Pat certainly has its own.

Can't wait to fly the Pat again, it sure is a plane the crowd loves to watch fly!

SpadCat

PS The battery loading system worked perfectly!
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 07:01 PM
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Thanks for the good write up Lon. That being said, it is safe to call the "Patriarch" an easy to build sport plane success. And also a big thank you for being the guinea pig, and helping work out the plans. It's been great fun!
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadCat2000 View Post
Landing approaches are fine until it gets too slow during the flare and then falls to the ground, so airspeed has to be kept up higher than normal. This is due to the high AUW and the KFM-4 airfoil. I say that because I am also flying the Tweety Bird which weighs more and has less wing area, but landings are very predictable and easy to grease on. I think the full airfoil has a lower stall speed then the KFM-4 with higher wing loadings.
Lon, I think it is several things that are increasing your stall speed. Your right on about the higher AUW and the KFM4 foil. One more contributor is the swept wing. The dirty birdy has a very modest sweep, which I assume is helping with handling the slower speeds better.

Just for fun, I tried the Patriot on the flight sim and couldn't make a slow landing to save my life. It would just drop out of the air like you mentioned. I then tried the Super sportster with the straight wing, and it would land nice and slow. That wasn't probably the most accurate experiment, but it was entertaining.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 10:41 PM
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New Pattern Plane " The Mach Two"

Lon,

All your pattern birds inspired me, and I started drawing up an old 70's bird call the Mach 1. It was originally designed by Norm Page as a .60 size pattern ship. It will use the same KFM4 airfoil as the "patriarch", however I will be increasing the step to 50% of chord instead of 45% as on the Pat.

I just have to finish up the formers and most of the parts will be complete. Will be starting a new build thread in the coming weeks documenting the progress.

Chris
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Yes, I agree the Patriarch is a success. Fun to fly, and boy does it rolls fast! I damaged the left e-retract during the last hard landing, so will order the larger units. I dropped it in just like the first time I tried to land a loaded full scale 182 without carrying any approach power. Hardest landing in a full scale plane I ever had.

In regards to the KFM-4 airfoil, I also fly a Regal Bipe which utilizes a KFM-2 and due to the very light wing loading, it floats down to a walking speed landing with solid control. Funny thing, even though it has an airfoiled surface only on top of the wings, it is an outstanding inverted flying plane.

The Mach 1 should be an excellent subject for Depron. I saw several of them fly in contests in the 70's and thought I would someday build one. Maybe that someday is closer than I thought. . But, I still want to find a better/lighter way to finish it.

Thanks for the work you put into designing the Patriarch. I really enjoyed building and flying it.

SpadCat
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 06:40 AM
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Thanks for the compliments Lon!

I read that the KFM2 foil has better lifting qualities that the KFM4. But the 4 has a lot less drag for faster speed. I am going to try the KFM4 again, without the huge sweep the Patriarch has. The Mach 1 is the perfect subject for that. The plans are pretty much done, at least for my personal use, and will get some more depron this week.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 09:34 PM
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Here is a link to Mach 1 photos:

http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/pattern/patternm.htm

SpadCat
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 07:58 AM
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Thanks!
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 08:51 AM
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I flew some of those back in the 70's and 80's when i competed in pattern and a scat cat in pylon. I had some ace pattern planes when i starting out and you can find the tiled plans for the mach none, ace pacer and super pacer here . Just click on the names for a tiled free download . joe http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cracksmeup View Post
I flew some of those back in the 70's and 80's when i competed in pattern and a scat cat in pylon. I had some ace pattern planes when i starting out and you can find the tiled plans for the mach none, ace pacer and super pacer here . Just click on the names for a tiled free download . joe http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/
That is the site I used to download the plans for my e-Super Pacer I built earlier this year. While an excellent flyer, the Tweety Bird/Dirty Birdy 20 is better. Feels just like the Dirty Birdy of the 70's. The reason for the double name is because the fuse is TB and the wing and hor stab is DB 20. I also raced the Scat Cat, of which I still have one ready to fly. I am thinking of building the Ace Mach None to see how it compares to the Formosa.

OK, 'nuff of the bragging...now Jetcaptain.... where are those Mach 1 plans?...

SpadCat
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cracksmeup View Post
I flew some of those back in the 70's and 80's when i competed in pattern and a scat cat in pylon. I had some ace pattern planes when i starting out and you can find the tiled plans for the mach none, ace pacer and super pacer here . Just click on the names for a tiled free download . joe http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/
Thanks for the link Joe! A good resource for sure.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:48 PM
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OK, 'nuff of the bragging...now Jetcaptain.... where are those Mach 1 plans?...

SpadCat
They're coming soon.... I used the plans from Model Airplane News and made a exact downscaled copy. Wingspan of 48.7 inches. Should be able to use the same HK engine you have on the "Pat", of which I have one on the way for this bird.

I have attached a picture of my current drawing board. I will get everything onto a nice white background and get things labled this week. You are first in line for the plans.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:56 PM
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Thanks for the link Joe! A good resource for sure.
You are welcome captain ,i have been building my wings in foam like this video except i have been putting doublers in the middle cause i dont just trust tape . After you get the two sided angles figured out its a fast way to build them . I have also changed the airfoil shape by adding some foam ribs inside before i fold them . When i get time to build yours i will make it a full airfoil also . I have a google translater on my computer so i can read german and i have been raiding their forums for plans and free stuff.lol Here is how they are building thier wings . http://jk-modellflug.de.tl/symetrisches-Profil.htm He also has some pattern/ 3/D plane plans there but he only gives a small drawing with measurements in mm. joe
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:57 PM
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Joe,

That is a interesting approach to building a wing. Thanks for sharing.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 12:29 PM
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Joe,

That is a interesting approach to building a wing. Thanks for sharing.
I have been learning from jurgen in germany and freddie b here on how to make full airfoil wings cause i dont like flat ones. For a thin jet wing i have been sanding the back and front of the inside of two pieces with a carbon fiber rod in the bottom piece . With the reverse sanding the inside's once i glue the two pieces together with elmers rubber cement and weight it down or clamp it i get a very thin wing with a out side airfoil and very strong too. I did this on a BD-5 pusher plane i got plans from here but have not finished yet. I think a full airfoil glides better with power off but i did not want to slow it down with a thick airfoil either. The rest of my wing has a better looking airfoil but you can see from the wing tip it has one ,this one was not final sanded yet .lol Iam a old builder with balsa but never to old to learn about building in foam. I like your plans captian and the pattern plane looks great as well . joe
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