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Old Jun 14, 2010, 11:20 AM
What's that button do?
Shpook's Avatar
Hollywood, FL
Joined Feb 2008
1,347 Posts
Sorry to hear that. What servo did you have in the wing?
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 11:25 AM
Registered User
Tallahassee, FL
Joined May 2004
168 Posts
Carbon Rod vs. Carbon Flat

Just curious at to why everybody is using a carbon rod instead of a vertical carbon flat for the spar? Seems like the carbon flat strip is more rigid in the direction that counts, lighter, and involves taking out much less material from the wing to install. I put various length 4.5mm x 1.5mm strips into my wing to repair some creases and it stiffened things up dramatically. I have both rods and strips on hand and the rods appear to flex more than the strips. Cutting a 1mm slit to press the strip into seems much easier and less invasive than digging out a 5mm trench into the wing for the rod. Thoughts?

John
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 11:33 AM
Registered User
Tallahassee, FL
Joined May 2004
168 Posts
Wing servos?

Has anyone considered putting a couple of these into the wing:

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...idProduct=7026

I bought two of these to possibly try in my Sokol before it's demise. This would definitely free up space in the fuse for battery placement and probably eliminate any "won't turn" issues that have been reported here.
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 12:07 PM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,778 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyanything View Post
Just curious at to why everybody is using a carbon rod instead of a vertical carbon flat for the spar? Seems like the carbon flat strip is more rigid in the direction that counts, lighter, and involves taking out much less material from the wing to install. I put various length 4.5mm x 1.5mm strips into my wing to repair some creases and it stiffened things up dramatically. I have both rods and strips on hand and the rods appear to flex more than the strips. Cutting a 1mm slit to press the strip into seems much easier and less invasive than digging out a 5mm trench into the wing for the rod. Thoughts?

John
I plan to use flat CF if I get another Rifle
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 01:18 PM
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keehopper's Avatar
Albuquerque NM
Joined Mar 2009
82 Posts
I put everything that was recommended by the instructions and even placed the carbon into the wings. The front firewall came out, so I fixed that. The point being is that if I wanted a Kit that required extensive modification to fly, I would have bought one. This was sold as a 1-2 hours easy installation project. I hope GP will allow me credit toward some other plane. I gave everything to the local shop to send in. Even the Ammo is shot from the crash.
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 01:21 PM
Registered User
Tallahassee, FL
Joined May 2004
168 Posts
Keehopper, really sorry to hear about your loss... I've lost a couple models on maiden flights and it's especially disappointing after all the work and anticipation. Perhaps you could be so kind as to answer some questions so the rest of us can learn something from your misfortune. Were the ailerons pre-flight checked and moving fine before launch? This is crucial because you can never be sure that the aileron control is clear until you bolt the wing into place. Sounds like something (battery?) may have moved inside the fuse when the plane was hand-launched and interfered with the aileron servo movement. What size battery were you using and what was it's position prior to bolting on the wing? Was it held in place by velcro or some other means? Was the battery fastened to the floor or sidewall? Anything you can tell us might be helpful for those still working with this model.

Thanks, and again, sorry.

John
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Last edited by flyanything; Jun 14, 2010 at 03:08 PM.
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Old Jun 15, 2010, 08:53 AM
Permission to buzz the tower?
ds-fifty's Avatar
Adelaide, South Australia
Joined Nov 2007
93 Posts
Hi all and great reading on this thread.

I too had my maiden today. I reinforced the wings with 3mm carbon. (No flat stuff was available from my LHS and I didn't want to wait for HK shipping time) I also redid the wing tab. Wasn't sure about the firewall, what to do etc. (See previous post and photos)

My friend threw if firmly but not like a baseball about 30 degrees inclined. It banked left, but I easily saved it and trimmed it out to level. (5 or 6 clicks) It also needed a couple of clicks down elevator, because I like a bit of back stick pressure.

It hummed. It's the fastest thing I've flown. The 4.5x4.0 Graupner speed prop was a slower option, but I would guess 140-160kmh.

I did a couple of passes at WOT which drew some attention! (Mine could be the only one in Australia!) Landing was an issue. It just would not slow down as reported by others. I took a long approach and three heads turned as it zipped past at knee height in ground effect. It landed about 100m away, when I plonked it in about 10cm grass. The prop broke, but the rest was fine.

I loved it and am still peaking adrenaline as we speak! A great entry level plane into speed IMHO.

Can't wait to fly it again. Very happy! (Hope it stays that way!)

Using the Hobby City 28mm 3900Kv motor (the gold one)
Hobby City 40A speed controller (the purple one)
1850 40C Hobby City Batteries (the blue ones)
Futaba S3114 servos (these are black!)

I'm using a Spektrum DX6 radio and had to trim the cover off the AR6000 receiver to fit it in the rear air vent then connect the plugs with tweezers!
With this radio, range can be an issue, so I have to keep this rocket close, which is fine given its size.
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Old Jun 15, 2010, 10:29 AM
Registered User
Tallahassee, FL
Joined May 2004
168 Posts
Congrats mate on a successful maiden! I agree, for the price, this is a great entry into speed/pylon. I built mine completely stock (no reinforcement), kept it light (16oz) and it flew great with no issues. Just finished repairs from a bad launch so I'm ready for a SECOND maiden. I was using 25C Flightmax 1000 (3.2oz), which worked great, but I just ordered some 40C Rhino 1050 (3.6oz) and some 30C Turnigy 1250 (4.3oz) packs to try. These packs should better handle WOT amp draw.

John
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Old Jun 15, 2010, 11:21 AM
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keehopper's Avatar
Albuquerque NM
Joined Mar 2009
82 Posts
flyanything, I would be glad to!

I purchased the plane and all of the recommended parts from the local shop. I first tried the Ammo 3180 and the shaft was bent, returned and got another one. Servos were recommended JR servos, had to build up servo box area in wing for corrected fit. Servo box inside let go, so I re-CA the box before securing. Once the plane was put together, the information on this thread mentioned the wings were folding. I did the Carbon in the wings.
Once that was done, I went to the shop to test the props for amps/rpm and watts with the meters. several props were tested. settled on the 4.75x for maiden. at the time of testing, the front firewall gave way and we had to re-epoxy the wall back on. I have about 12 planes from slow gliders to showtime, stearman, beaver, pulse 25 (fast) and others. I am not too sure footed on the fast pylon racers, but would like to get into that type of craft. Several club member are and fly several different types as well as other faster fan jets and pylon craft. I wanted the maiden flight and trim done from someone with experience and seat of the pants reactive talent. The plane was balanced, cg set correctly, no vibration in prop at high rpm and I had worked on the trim setting to make sure they were free and easy. The battery (1800 hyperion) was set inside with velcro and hard to even remove, so it was set! servos were clear inside and I glued the cables to the side to make sure they were out of the way from the servo movement. The esc (30amp) had velcro to the top of the fuse in front and held in place also by the battery below.
The field was clear of other traffic with a very large flying area. Light winds (calm) early am, at about 70 degrees.
All of the trim settings were set to the recommended levels. Full throttle on take off, toss was about 45 degree.
The plane flew about 30 yards and never would turn and level out.
Well, obviously the guys felt real bad about helping out and having the plane crash, but we did everything we could to make sure it was ok to maiden. I did use pilots with many years of experience rather than trying to maiden myself. The pilot mentioned that the control serfaces even on high rate did not have much affect on the planes attitude while taking off. We are about 5100 ft above sea level and we did make changes to compensate (4.75x4.75 prop). I returned the plane back to the shop and requested they send all of it back to GP for credit on another plane.
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Old Jun 15, 2010, 11:50 AM
Registered User
Tallahassee, FL
Joined May 2004
168 Posts
Thanks for the info keehopper. Now I'm wondering if it was just the combination of prop torque at full throttle and insufficient throw on the ailerons to overcome the left torque at lower air speeds. On my maiden I noticed that mine rocked left pretty hard just after the toss and it took holding full right aileron to bring it back. From then on I used high rates for launching. Also, on a steep launch, it takes more time to develop airspeed to make the flight controls effective. I guess we'll never know for sure but thanks for sharing the info.

John
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Old Jun 15, 2010, 11:54 AM
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keehopper's Avatar
Albuquerque NM
Joined Mar 2009
82 Posts
Yep, hope it helps anyone trying to get these to work. I am going to stick with my Sundowner and other fast planes. These pylon planes just look so cool and seem much faster due to the size.
Thanks
jk
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Old Jun 15, 2010, 06:21 PM
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kenelder's Avatar
USA, FL, St Petersburg
Joined Dec 2003
974 Posts
I haven't built mine yet (no time) but I did want to share my experience launching a fast 400 size older pylon design just in case it might help anyone. I currently fly a Triffik with a rather overpowered setup (about the same size as the rifle). I have discovered (several repairs and new fuselages later) that its impossible for me or any helpers to hand launch it at full throttle. The torque at full throttle and low roll rate at low airspeed just don't work together.

I usually launch it or have a helper launch it at about 30 deg upward angle and half throttle. Less than half throttle results in a "lawn dart" launch and a new fuselage. Too much throttle results in a hard left roll and its a race to see if the airspeed gets fast enough the ailerons work before it rolls in (usually fuselage repairs).

The control movements on my Triffik are so small that it is basically a projectile with little control until the airspeed builds up. I'd say takeoff is the most exciting part of the flight, after that the high speed is smooth and somewhat calming!

I anticipate the same thing with the rifle when I finally get it done.

Hope this info helps everyone!
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Old Jun 15, 2010, 07:33 PM
Registered User
Tallahassee, FL
Joined May 2004
168 Posts
kenelder, have you tried launching with high rates set? I know this made a big difference for me with the rifle... same for my Sokol which I never even programmed a low rate for. My high rates are basically the mechanical limits of the control throws.

John
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Old Jun 16, 2010, 06:44 AM
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kenelder's Avatar
USA, FL, St Petersburg
Joined Dec 2003
974 Posts
Yeah I tried high rates- unfortunately they aren't high enough, its still a projectile until it gets speed. It accelerates so fast though that this only lasts a few seconds, then everything works fine.

At high speed its way too much control even on low rates. Still half throttle launches work pretty well.
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Old Jun 16, 2010, 08:39 AM
Spicy Torque Roll!
volcomsnows2k's Avatar
USA, CA, Pasadena
Joined Dec 2006
1,826 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenelder View Post
I haven't built mine yet (no time) but I did want to share my experience launching a fast 400 size older pylon design just in case it might help anyone. I currently fly a Triffik with a rather overpowered setup (about the same size as the rifle). I have discovered (several repairs and new fuselages later) that its impossible for me or any helpers to hand launch it at full throttle. The torque at full throttle and low roll rate at low airspeed just don't work together.

I usually launch it or have a helper launch it at about 30 deg upward angle and half throttle. Less than half throttle results in a "lawn dart" launch and a new fuselage. Too much throttle results in a hard left roll and its a race to see if the airspeed gets fast enough the ailerons work before it rolls in (usually fuselage repairs).

The control movements on my Triffik are so small that it is basically a projectile with little control until the airspeed builds up. I'd say takeoff is the most exciting part of the flight, after that the high speed is smooth and somewhat calming!

I anticipate the same thing with the rifle when I finally get it done.

Hope this info helps everyone!


kenelder is right on the money. I know to not launch the Rifle at less than half throttle, however, I did one time toss her at just about full. She torqued to the left so bad and I barely had any aileron response, I almost piled her into the pits at my field. She finally regained air over the control surfaces and I was able to fly her out of it. I have found a sweet spot and its about 60% power and it's a pleasant launch every time. I also launch with my right arm and have to get back on the sticks. 30 Degrees is about the angle of my hand launches.

Happy Flying,

Pete
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