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Old Oct 11, 2012, 05:09 PM
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iflyhelis's Avatar
United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
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We told you your 2702 RX was most likely damaged.


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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
To an extent yes, that is happening. The problem is, it's much more exaggerated on the v450 than on even my v120 or 4f200. Plus on the sim i can do them much more stable. I still feel like the v450 is not going to do hard fast "blade's edge / hovering" tic-tocks. At least not without loosing the tail a little or becoming unstable. I think my old RX was really bunk man!! Like bad. This new one even feels more stable and so far has not given me any kind of brown/black out symptom or throttle cut/rev down. Plus, it's amazing how much cooler everything is running. It was cool out today, so that helped. But i'm still positive that the motor was running smoother and not as hot. The ESC of course ran cold as always. Most i get on that is about as hot as my hand is. I have 30 minutes of video edited and being rendered as a 1080 8mbps file. It won't look as nice as the original video, but it uploads much quicker. Besides my camera doesn't ever seem to be all that sharp in the first place. I need to get a go pro. But there has been enough wasted money here, IMO.

I suppose now i need to buy a new RX. But guess what, it won't be a 2702V. If i did that it would seriously be only to sell it. Looks like i'll have to buy a DX7 soon and eventually get that 7200BX. I'm sure that will solve every issue i have ever had with this heli. New ESC, RX, Servos. I could have had a V8!
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 08:18 PM
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Malaysia, Melaka
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
It's been a while. But i believe you turn on the TX. Go to Stick menu. Change "ID BIND" to "Random" (it should be random already) and then turn off your TX and plug in the battery on your heli. When the heli turns on the RX light will be flashing. Turn on your TX and the heli will bind to the TX like normal. Go into the stick menu after binding and change it to "ID BIND". A random number will be used or you can set your own. It will ask for "ID MATCH?" you press the ent button and it will begin sending the ID to the RX. Once it has completed The RX has received the ID code. Unplug the heli and plug it back in. It should bind immediately to the RX. ........ But that manual is hard enough to translate, someone should have been hired that can write English, instead of Chinglish. Because no one understands what they are saying in their manuals!
@ Integrity...
Thanks for the all procedure, I will try it out on Rx 2702 first, but I'm wondering if I could do it on Rx2614 too (V400D02 Rx) by usind the Tx WK-2801, It make sense? V400 manual doesn't mention anything about that anyway... I will update you later on.
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
LOL, you know me. The v450 was back together an hour later and ready to fly the next day after work. My current plan is to invest in a DX7 or DX8. MAYBE the 8 because it has 3 idle up switches and i do love me some governor mode! So that would be just wonderful to have! Plus 3 pitch and throttle curves for each mode too. It's just expensive. Once i have that i will buy a 7200BX and decide what helicopter kit to get. Right now i'm leaning strong toward that CopterX/Align 600 hybrid heli. But honestly i'm not too keen on running 2 pack helis just yet. So i'm still eyeballing the X5 hard core. I mean i almost feel like if i'm going to go to a 600+ size i might as well go with the Align 800, right? Since we're all living in fantasy land over here.

Either way, i can say this much. I'm POSITIVE my old rx was bunk as hell! This new one is even working better as far as the gyros. Which were really pissing me off on my old RX! This new one is totally reacting different in the wind and everything. It has more correction and movement from the gyros! The old one hardly moved the servos at all. After 10 packs i hope it stays this way. Because this is around the time, last time i tried this rx, that all the inconsistencies started showing up again and then the blackouts too. Should be good now because i defaulted the ESC and am using proper settings that i know are safe and the motor and esc are running cool. Unlike last time, i think i was so frustrated and had no confidence that the RX would solve the problem too. I didn't give it a good chance, and i should have reset my ESC but didn't. If that was the problem the whole time, it's just crazy because there is no signs of damage or any logical reason this would happen. The RX must just loose power or over heat or something weird and it was shutting me down at totally random times. I can't tell you how happy i am this last crash was actually my fault! Now i just have to get a new RX for it. The question is do i just get a new 2702V, while they are still available in stores. Or do i just wait and get a 7200BX when i get a spekrum TX? In either case a nano is in my future too i think everyone is really looking like they love theirs. Plus some times, i would love to be able to fly indoors and not worry about going to a field or park.

Now with the Trueblood hard dampers and CF blades with the new RX. The heli is actually flying pretty nice. The question will be if it can keep up with me and what i'm trying to translate from the sim! It's nice the repairs are so cheap. If the gyros and heli will perform now. Perhaps i can advance like i want. The damn thing still won't piro inverted correctly though.... Still working on that. So until i can hammer that issue down the V450 might still be slotted for sale! Because if i can't do that, i can't trust it for inverted circuits either.
You know you can use any flybarless unit you want with a the walkera 8-12ch rcvrs right? They big bird rcvrs work really well. You can get a Devo10 with two 10ch rcvrs and two good but inexpensive flybarless (like the robird) units for less than the cost of a DX8 and I am being totally honest when I say it works beautifully.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Madog71 View Post
@ Integrity...
Thanks for the all procedure, I will try it out on Rx 2702 first, but I'm wondering if I could do it on Rx2614 too (V400D02 Rx) by usind the Tx WK-2801, It make sense? V400 manual doesn't mention anything about that anyway... I will update you later on.
It won't work. The 2614 does not have ID bind. Only the 2801 and 2702 for the 2801-pro TX. Devo has ID bind on their newer RX.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pmerritt View Post
You know you can use any flybarless unit you want with a the walkera 8-12ch rcvrs right? They big bird rcvrs work really well. You can get a Devo10 with two 10ch rcvrs and two good but inexpensive flybarless (like the robird) units for less than the cost of a DX8 and I am being totally honest when I say it works beautifully.
Well, of course i know that. If i were to do that i would still rather get a microbeast though, regardless. I've had enough of cutting costs on electronics only to end up paying a hell of a lot more in the long run. I'm sure this is especially true with Gyros. But whats the point in risking all that nice equipment with using these hit or miss type electronics by Walkera? Sure, I like their 2801-pro and i already own three of them. If i have to pay $160 for a new ANYTHING it's not likely going to be Walkera again, I'm pretty sure. It's just not worth the head ache. I don't want to deal with them anymore. I'll either stick with one of the three 2801-pro controllers in my possession now or buy a Futaba/Spektrum. Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, shame on me!

Or in the famous words of George Bush: "Fool me once..... Shame on.....Shame on you. You fool me, you can get fooled again"

If you haven't ever seen that speech, watch that link. It's hilarious!
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
It won't work. The 2614 does not have ID bind. Only the 2801 and 2702 for the 2801-pro TX. Devo has ID bind on their newer RX.




Well, of course i know that. If i were to do that i would still rather get a microbeast though, regardless. I've had enough of cutting costs on electronics only to end up paying a hell of a lot more in the long run. I'm sure this is especially true with Gyros. But whats the point in risking all that nice equipment with using these hit or miss type electronics by Walkera? Sure, I like their 2801-pro and i already own three of them. If i have to pay $160 for a new ANYTHING it's not likely going to be Walkera again, I'm pretty sure. It's just not worth the head ache. I don't want to deal with them anymore. I'll either stick with one of the three 2801-pro controllers in my possession now or buy a Futaba/Spektrum. Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, shame on me!

Or in the famous words of George Bush: "Fool me once..... Shame on.....Shame on you. You fool me, you can get fooled again"

If you haven't ever seen that speech, watch that link. It's hilarious!
Also there is likely resolution and other compatibility issues. I don't know much about the specifics myself. But it's been hard to find people that know the technicals enough to talk to about the RX/TX/Gryo relationship. But there are differences in resolutions that can affect performance and precision of control. Since Walkera does not publish specs, i plan to go with what i know. Razorblade in the 4f200 thread was most helpful by posting this info out of his Spektrum manuals. It indicated what i feared about mixing a 2801-pro or other RX/TX with the BeastX system on the 7200BX or others. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...9#post22979241

I only got in 2 packs today before it got dark. One of them wasn't even a full pack. The heli seems to fly backwards inverted nicer than it used too also. I'm worried it's not going to hold well though. Like my other WK helis it kind of drifts a little bit in reverse flight. The heli also does not particularly like to stay level when doing piros inverted. I noticed the blade tracking was slightly off at the end of the flight. That could have something to do with it. But it was only one turn off. So i doubt it. Anyway, this flight has a lot of nose in. inverted flight and some really big loops. Well, really big for me. I think i'm probably coming close to exceeding my 200 foot ceiling. But they sure are fun.

V450D01 - 10-11-12 - Inverted nose in & Big loops (7 min 2 sec)
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 11:48 AM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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Looks like you need to cut the grass, lol
I cant bring down the real helis that low yet , way to scared lol.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Looks like you need to cut the grass, lol
I cant bring down the real helis that low yet , way to scared lol.
Ohh, i think i got some goooood videos today. Not sure. But i had a LOT of fun! I've cranked my 2702 gyros WAY up and they do seem to be holding much better in the wind. Your all aware of the position i had before at 1/2 turn of the pot. Now i'm pushing 5/8 turn. The heli is flying nice now.


I've had my RX apart so many times. Nothing is cracked. No loose connections. Solder joints are all fine. I've added capacitors to the RX circuit and everything. For some reason that thing would just loose power. It seemed like the power would dip from time to time causing inconsistency in the gyros/sticks. I decided since no one seems to have a spare 2702 just laying around they want to sell for cheap, i'll just buy one of the $119 ones from wow hobbies that they took of a heli to install a devo rx instead. So that will be on the way soon. Can't decide if it want to keep or sell the yellow 450 now though I think it would be best to sell it and get something bigger.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 06:28 PM
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not trying to sell you on Devo10 or anything just putting it out there that the Devo10 does have a higher resolution mode, this is another of it's new features, but as you said, it isn't posted what it is. It could be the same as Spektrum....it may not be. By the way, I also had the 2801pro and the Devo10 really is a step above the 2801pro. I am sure your Spektrum will treat you well though. They have tons more flying them so that says something in itself. I just like the bang for the buck on my Devo10.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pmerritt View Post
not trying to sell you on Devo10 or anything just putting it out there that the Devo10 does have a higher resolution mode, this is another of it's new features, but as you said, it isn't posted what it is. It could be the same as Spektrum....it may not be. By the way, I also had the 2801pro and the Devo10 really is a step above the 2801pro. I am sure your Spektrum will treat you well though. They have tons more flying them so that says something in itself. I just like the bang for the buck on my Devo10.
Yeah, I agree. Much more included for the price. I wish they had the specs available for any of their electronics, ever! lol. But Since razorblade posted something from his manual for the 7200BX, the gyro/rx i plan on getting. It says that the JR TX's work with it too. I have not checked but i bet the JR ones are cheaper? /shrug. That magic cube thing is interesting, but not to be trusted. At least not yet. I'm still up in the air on what exactly i want to do. If i get the 600 clone, i might go a cheaper route. But if i do get a X5 i'm going with the Spektrum for sure, i think. I don't think there will be much of a size difference between a X5 and a 600 either. What is it? Like maybe a few inches longer on the tail boom? Not a big deal, but the price is quite different between the two.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 09:02 PM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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I sold my v400. I didnt get what i wanted for it , but i sold it!Yehaw, more time for the v450 and trex600.
Integrity , you said earlier you may do a clone , well check this site out , these guys have been giving me advise since the beginning of my heli life!
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1473111

Its what made me go with the align heli, and walker rx/ tx combo .... For now due to money. Its been working out perfect so far
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 10:38 PM
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I went the route of a Tarot 450 dfc(mostly align now) + rx-2702v and I have to say I have had 0 problems with the rx or any of the electronics in 100+ flights. I've had 3 crashes, all of them caused be me. It's worked out well.

Also I was going to say I get my 2702v's from miracle mart for 86 bucks... but I see they are out of stock now.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
I sold my v400. I didnt get what i wanted for it , but i sold it!Yehaw, more time for the v450 and trex600.
Integrity , you said earlier you may do a clone , well check this site out , these guys have been giving me advise since the beginning of my heli life!
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1473111

Its what made me go with the align heli, and walker rx/ tx combo .... For now due to money. Its been working out perfect so far
In reality, i could probably even use a 2702V on a 600. I ran my Savox servos at 6V so i know the RX can deal with that no problem. I'm sure it would work. I could also do a 2801 with a 3GX or Microbeast or any other gyro. But i really want the Microbeast or 7200BX. When the time comes i'll make a decision. As much as i would like a X7 or 700 size heli. I just don't think it would be practical yet. I'm not really all that good yet and crashing a 700 would be devastating for me. The damn blades alone will break the bank. All for a "learning curve". No i think i'll wait till i'm much better. The 450 will help get me there, now that it seems to actually be flying correctly and i have about 25 pack into the new RX. It's holding strong! I'm becoming more confident with it. I'm almost tempted to do inverted circuits like i do with the 120s! But i'm easing into it. Not going to crazy yet. If all goes well and i can sell that new V450 when the new RX comes for it. I might have a new heli added to the fleet within the next month or two. Hopefully. The big problem will be deciding what to get.

Here is what ended up being a pretty fun flight. All the rest of the videos today ended up being cut off or angled wrong. I had some cool little moments i hoped i got on film but, i didn't. This was still probably the best flight of the day though. I even managed a few slow semi-well controlled tick tocks. I'm still trying to get them like nick and matt.. But you know. Maybe in another year.

V450D01 - 10-12-12 - A Few slow tic-tocks (5 min 27 sec)


Tomorrow is supposed to have 30+ mph gusts/gales from the tropics. So it should be fun "wind surfing" the helis in that.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
In reality, i could probably even use a 2702V on a 600. I ran my Savox servos at 6V so i know the RX can deal with that no problem. I'm sure it would work. I could also do a 2801 with a 3GX or Microbeast or any other gyro. But i really want the Microbeast or 7200BX. When the time comes i'll make a decision. As much as i would like a X7 or 700 size heli. I just don't think it would be practical yet. I'm not really all that good yet and crashing a 700 would be devastating for me. The damn blades alone will break the bank. All for a "learning curve". No i think i'll wait till i'm much better. The 450 will help get me there, now that it seems to actually be flying correctly and i have about 25 pack into the new RX. It's holding strong! I'm becoming more confident with it. I'm almost tempted to do inverted circuits like i do with the 120s! But i'm easing into it. Not going to crazy yet. If all goes well and i can sell that new V450 when the new RX comes for it. I might have a new heli added to the fleet within the next month or two. Hopefully. The big problem will be deciding what to get.

Here is what ended up being a pretty fun flight. All the rest of the videos today ended up being cut off or angled wrong. I had some cool little moments i hoped i got on film but, i didn't. This was still probably the best flight of the day though. I even managed a few slow semi-well controlled tick tocks. I'm still trying to get them like nick and matt.. But you know. Maybe in another year.

http://youtu.be/6rScrwFiwJ4

Tomorrow is supposed to have 30+ mph gusts/gales from the tropics. So it should be fun "wind surfing" the helis in that.

The 450d01 looks like it's flying really well.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 10:54 AM
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Cold air...good for blade performance...bad for battery performance.

Guys

I have now gone full circle in the course of a year starting off with learning to fly in my house last winter progressing to outdoors in the spring and then battled the 100+ temps of summer, making changes as I went to keep the aircraft performance up through the seasonal changes. Now winter and cold temps. In talking about cold temps and battery performance in aviation maintenance classes I used to give I would always use this example to drive home my point...when the first real cold day of the winter season hit's, if you were to stand at the automotive counter in Wal Mart what would you see people buying...and the answer is car batteries. Those weak car batteries that performed well during the warm summer months are no match for cold temps and their ability to start your car in that cold air is very limited.
The same is true for airplane batteries as well, just because the battey in your airplane started the engine well in the summer doesn't mean it will in the winter. Before it gets cold, check your battery health to prevent cold air issues.

So now that brings me to my batteries in my M120 and V450, I see that cold temps suck for them as well. They have performed well during the summer months but now in the early morning cold which is when I fly before work, they have very little to give me other than just flying circuits, some can't even do a couple of pitch pumps without giving it up to low power output.
It's see it more in the M120 than the V450 but performance is lacking.
I was quick to open up the intake scoop on the V450 during the 100 degree summer days which helped keep the battery and motor cool with some flow through ventilation but now I am thinking of buying anothe new canopy and leaving the scoop closed for winter flying to keep things as warm as possible.

You gus have any tricks for these small batteries?
I can keep them in my pocket (making sure they don't short togeather) before use but at 32 degrees it doesn't take long for a cold soak to weaken the battery.

Chilly Viking
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Guys

I have now gone full circle in the course of a year starting off with learning to fly in my house last winter progressing to outdoors in the spring and then battled the 100+ temps of summer, making changes as I went to keep the aircraft performance up through the seasonal changes. Now winter and cold temps. In talking about cold temps and battery performance in aviation maintenance classes I used to give I would always use this example to drive home my point...when the first real cold day of the winter season hit's, if you were to stand at the automotive counter in Wal Mart what would you see people buying...and the answer is car batteries. Those weak car batteries that performed well during the warm summer months are no match for cold temps and their ability to start your car in that cold air is very limited.
The same is true for airplane batteries as well, just because the battey in your airplane started the engine well in the summer doesn't mean it will in the winter. Before it gets cold, check your battery health to prevent cold air issues.

So now that brings me to my batteries in my M120 and V450, I see that cold temps suck for them as well. They have performed well during the summer months but now in the early morning cold which is when I fly before work, they have very little to give me other than just flying circuits, some can't even do a couple of pitch pumps without giving it up to low power output.
It's see it more in the M120 than the V450 but performance is lacking.
I was quick to open up the intake scoop on the V450 during the 100 degree summer days which helped keep the battery and motor cool with some flow through ventilation but now I am thinking of buying anothe new canopy and leaving the scoop closed for winter flying to keep things as warm as possible.

You gus have any tricks for these small batteries?
I can keep them in my pocket (making sure they don't short togeather) before use but at 32 degrees it doesn't take long for a cold soak to weaken the battery.

Chilly Viking
Wow man, it's still like 70+ degrees here at 5am. Sucks if it's freaking freezing there already!? We are still getting tropical storms which means the cold dry air is not forcing it's way down this way yet. I'm hoping when it does this wind will DIE!!! DIE WIND DIE!!!!... (cough) hm. hum. sorry.. What was i saying? oh yeah. A little chill came though and now it might be a little cooler and LOTS less humidity. Which will bring me to another point in a second.

But first, batteries. One thing you can do is run the heat in your car and place the packs in front of the vents. How you work that out will depend on you. I'm sure in the cold, your pack will perform opposite of what you would normally be used to in the summer. The pack will perform poorly when cold. But it will heat itself up and will perform better near the end of the pack. Lipo packs don't operate exactly like a lead acid battery in a car, but the same principals do apply. 32 degrees is pretty cold. So keeping the packs body temp or slightly above before you go flying would work out best. The motor will keep them warm after that. The 450 packs can probably handle the cold better because of the surface to mass ratio, they will likely retain the heat from your car/body while setting them up and getting ready to fly. When your dealing with little 650 mAh packs they will go cold faster in the cold air and who knows, because i will never be able to fly in 30 degree weather living here. I really can't say, It might not work out at all with the 1S packs for you. You might be stuck indoors or waiting till the spring. The 450 won't like the cold either. But if you can keep the packs hot you'll be okay. Freezing cold is not a great idea though. Maybe in the 40-50 degree range. But this will be my first winter and the coldest i can expect is low to mid 20s for a few hours in the middle of the night. So i really can't give the best advise for cold flying. From what i have read, the thesis is. Don't do it.

Edit:
I just thought of something else which would save more energy in keeping your packs warm. They sell those little hand packs, i'm sure you've seen them. When they are exposed to oxygen they heat up. You place them in your pockets to keep your hands warm in the cold. I don't have any particular brand or even name of the item. But those things would probably be awesome for keeping your little 1S packs warm till it's time! Sometimes they can get so hot they can actually burn you though if the oxygen exposure is too rich. Usually they are fine here in Florida, higher altitude might not warm as well.

Now, about static. Some of you guys probably live in dry climates and already have some idea about the issues that can arise in a dry climate. Well now that we are going into the cooler months over here. That also brings in dryer air. That is bad news for anyone using EMI sensitive devices like radio receivers that just happen to sit right on top of a rubber belt rubbing against an aluminum tube. The friction, just like peter griffin in pajamas, creates static build up and can interfere with the RX. I'm pretty sure the v450 belt's composition is fairly decent in regards to the anti-static factor. But it's something to keep in mind if you start seeing issues. I've seen a few remedies for this including placing a square of fabric softener sheet between the tape below the rx?! Sounds weird but apparently fabric softener is highly anti-static. So if the tape sticks to it, layering it between seems to make sense. Otherwise there are rubber/plastic safe anti-static sprays.
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