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Old Mar 09, 2011, 03:31 PM
Curtis
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Nampa, Idaho
Joined Apr 2010
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Where is the Huge Spirit Thread?

The Spirit has been around long enough that I thought there would be a huge thread out there somewhere. I can't find it.
I'm just finishing my 2M Spirit. I thought I would browse through some of the Spirit threads for tips. There seems to be a bunch of small threads. But, no Spirit owners threads.
I am setting up the control throws. And the instruction manual puts the Rudder at 1-1/2" of throw each way from center. The elevator show 1/2" throw from center. For some reason this seems like a huge amount of movement. I haven't put the Spirit in the air yet. So, maybe this is correct. I adjusted my Spektrum TX to give me the throws listed. And that much movement sure makes the tail wag!

Curtis
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 09:38 PM
LSF V,LSF Secretary,AMA Lifer
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Huntsville
Joined Oct 2003
2,077 Posts
Curtis -

I built a couple Spirits in the dim distant past, but that was before there was such a thing as RC Groups so it's going to be on your shoulders to start the Huge Spirit Thread.

Give it a go with the suggested throws, adjust things to your liking and let us know how things should be done.

I'm hoping that if this is your first plane you can find some local club members to help out with the first flights. Things can happen fast and sneak up on you....or at least they did me. A bit of help from some experienced guys was definitely a good thing, and I've made a bunch of really great friends from all over in this hobby.
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 09:43 PM
more casual than stylish....
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Joined Jan 2003
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Maybe THIS is the Spirit thread.

I'd make the rudder have as much throw as possible, and mix it down when you maiden it. 1/2" of elevator sounds like a lot to me. My Dad's Spirit was reasonably responsive, as it flew faster than a Gentle Lady.

FWIW I usually launch new planes with the "rates" program open so I can dial the elevator down or up, usually down.
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 09:50 PM
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United States, MS, Amory
Joined Oct 2004
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That's the Spirit
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 10:45 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
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United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
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Sould you be checkin' the religious forums?

In a rare mood... sorry...
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 11:17 PM
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Canada, AB, Red Deer
Joined Apr 2010
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I can lend a bit of advice as to the control throw question. The stock control throws do work fine. One must remember that the Spirit does fly a bit on the slow side, so there is not much air blowing over the controls. That being said, if you don't feel comfortable with that much throw, set that as your high rates, with a bit of exponential thrown in, and set your low rates at maybe 70%.

I can say with confidence that as long as you are either comfortable with flying or have an experience helper, the stock throws will be fine. In fact, on all of the three Spirits I have owned/flown, I have actually increased the throws on the rudder. The elevator is fine how it is for all your flying. Funny thing, I actually had enough rudder on one of my Spirits that I could do a roll with it...and no I did not have ailerons That airplane had an enlarged rudder, plus a bit of extra throw.

Here is the latest one I have flown. This was my brother-in-law's first glider. His other airplane is a Kadet LT-40 Trainer.

The other glider in the one photo is my highly modified, extended wing Sagitta 900

You have probably read by now about the Spirits tendency to tip stall. I would highly recommend adding about 1/4" of washout to the wingtips to help prevent this a bit. Even though washout does degrade the performance, it is so slight that you will not notice it. Plus, when you get into a thermal and are working it hard, you will actually gain by not continually tip stalling and losing altitude. You will notice as well the winglets on this Spirit. This is the second one I have added those on and I have found that they also help to reduce the tip stall tendency. The other thing with the winglets is that they slightly improve glide performamce as well as stability.
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 11:32 AM
Curtis
suseuser's Avatar
Nampa, Idaho
Joined Apr 2010
947 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardustertoo View Post
I can lend a bit of advice as to the control throw question. The stock control throws do work fine. One must remember that the Spirit does fly a bit on the slow side, so there is not much air blowing over the controls. That being said, if you don't feel comfortable with that much throw, set that as your high rates, with a bit of exponential thrown in, and set your low rates at maybe 70%.

I can say with confidence that as long as you are either comfortable with flying or have an experience helper, the stock throws will be fine. In fact, on all of the three Spirits I have owned/flown, I have actually increased the throws on the rudder. The elevator is fine how it is for all your flying. Funny thing, I actually had enough rudder on one of my Spirits that I could do a roll with it...and no I did not have ailerons That airplane had an enlarged rudder, plus a bit of extra throw.

Here is the latest one I have flown. This was my brother-in-law's first glider. His other airplane is a Kadet LT-40 Trainer.

The other glider in the one photo is my highly modified, extended wing Sagitta 900

You have probably read by now about the Spirits tendency to tip stall. I would highly recommend adding about 1/4" of washout to the wingtips to help prevent this a bit. Even though washout does degrade the performance, it is so slight that you will not notice it. Plus, when you get into a thermal and are working it hard, you will actually gain by not continually tip stalling and losing altitude. You will notice as well the winglets on this Spirit. This is the second one I have added those on and I have found that they also help to reduce the tip stall tendency. The other thing with the winglets is that they slightly improve glide performamce as well as stability.
Looks like there is a large following for the Spirit. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. My first Glider was a GL. It's been a couple decades since I've flown that GL. I can't remember how much deflections was in the control surfaces of the GL. It may have been similar. The nice thing about a computerized TX is the ability to adjust the setting on the fly (no pun intended).

Here is the setup on my Spirit
Spektrum DX6i TX
Spektrum AR6100 RX
Hitek HS-85BB
HydriMax Ultra 4.8v 2000mAh Battery

No rhyme or reason to the setup. It's just how it worked out. The servos are a little over kill with 42oz-in of torque. The battery should last all day from what I've been told. It's the same one that is in my Bird of Time.

So specifics on the Spirit. I don't like the little pilot that comes with it. So, he is not going in. I plan on tinting the inside of the canopy.
I had to add 2-1/2oz of lead in the nose to get things to balance. Is this normal? Is this an excessive amount of weight? I have all the components moved as far forward as possible. I do have some Gold-N-Rod control rods that I can replace the standard wood dowel and metal rod configuration. I'm not sure how much that would help. And I'm not even sure if the 2-1/2oz of extra weight would really make that much difference in performance. Like most areas, windless days are a rarity. So, the extra weight may even be to my advantage.
I have yet to maiden my Spirit. I will be using a Dynaflite HD Hi-Start for my flights with 8lbs of pull to start out. I've heard this should get me in about the 500' area. I'll post some pictures and share my experiences as I make this journey.

I would like to hear from others about everything and anything regarding the Spirit. In this case the "old school" 2M Spirit. What mods have you done? What have you done to improve performance? Advice for beginners? What things you have learned?
I have found a lot of posts on the Spirit Elite. But, nothing specifically directed at the 2M Spirit. IMHO, the Spirit deserves some "Thread" space.

Curtis
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 12:12 PM
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I flew my first sailplane, a 2m Spirit a lot. Over time, I made several modifications that are summarized at:

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articl...spiritmods.htm
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 12:19 PM
Curtis
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Nampa, Idaho
Joined Apr 2010
947 Posts
After getting the wings together I ended up with a gap. Not huge, but enough I don't like it. I've considered just forcing it together tape it up and fly it that way. Maybe it will pull together over time?






Heres a picture of my balance jig. I made it in about 10min. Don't laugh. It works! I will be building a better jig soon. I have some thoughts on a better design.

Curtis
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Last edited by suseuser; Mar 10, 2011 at 12:43 PM.
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 12:23 PM
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Canada, AB, Red Deer
Joined Apr 2010
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Quote:
I don't like the little pilot that comes with it. So, he is not going in. I plan on tinting the inside of the canopy.
I agree!! Two of mine never had the pilot either. In fact, one had a carved styrofoam canopy instead. (plastic one got broken during construction due to no paying attention) The one in the picture the pilot is painted up to look like the goofy guy holding the glider. Its his and he wanted it like that!!

Quote:
I had to add 2-1/2oz of lead in the nose to get things to balance. Is this normal? Is this an excessive amount of weight? I have all the components moved as far forward as possible. I do have some Gold-N-Rod control rods that I can replace the standard wood dowel and metal rod configuration. I'm not sure how much that would help. And I'm not even sure if the 2-1/2oz of extra weight would really make that much difference in performance. Like most areas, windless days are a rarity. So, the extra weight may even be to my advantage.
Heck, my first one had standard size airtronics servo's, plus a couple ounces in the nose and it flew great!! Not quite as good in a thermal as my lighter ones, but AWSOME on the slope or in a windy day. I think you are giong to like how yours flies.

Quote:
I have yet to maiden my Spirit. I will be using a Dynaflite HD Hi-Start for my flights with 8lbs of pull to start out. I've heard this should get me in about the 500' area. I'll post some pictures and share my experiences as I make this journey.
I wore out 2 of the exact same high starts, mostly with my very first airplane, a Gentle Lady, and then my first 2 Spirits. You know, I have never actually measured the pull, I have always just gone with the good ole' "that feels about right" Haven't pulled a wing off yet

Definitely keep posting the progress, the Spirit is a good glider, and can be made even better with a few mods. Give williamson's article a read if you haven't already. He has some great ideas.
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 12:26 PM
Curtis
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Nampa, Idaho
Joined Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by williamson View Post
I flew my first sailplane, a 2m Spirit a lot. Over time, I made several modifications that are summarized at:

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articl...spiritmods.htm
Excellent article. It answered a lot of issues I haven't even thought about. Hopefully I won't have to repair it 20 times.

Curtis
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 12:42 PM
Curtis
suseuser's Avatar
Nampa, Idaho
Joined Apr 2010
947 Posts
Speaking of good reading; I just finished up the Old Buzzard's Soaring Book. I'm reading it a second time. It should be a must-read for any Sailplane pilot. It saw several references to the book in a few threads. I like Dave Thornburg's added humor to what could have been a very dry subject.

Curtis
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 10:51 AM
Gary L
Dexter, Kansas
Joined Oct 2009
231 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by suseuser View Post
After getting the wings together I ended up with a gap. Not huge, but enough I don't like it. I've considered just forcing it together tape it up and fly it that way. Maybe it will pull together over time?
I think you definitely need to fix the gap... and the mismatch at the trailing edges. As-is, that wing will NOT allow well trimmed, stable flight. You're going to have the two wing halves flying at different angles of attack, resulting in a plane that will want to turn when the rudder is commanding the plane to fly straight. It will therefore "crab" in straight ahead flight, creating a lot of unnecessary drag and generally speaking, an ill-handling airplane. I think I can guarantee that plane could be a handful on the highstart when the speed builds up during launch. With the trailing edge of the left wing higher than the right, you have (in effect) huge ailerons commanding a left roll; the higher the airspeed, the more it will want to bank left.

I have to wonder if you don't have an ARF that has had a right or left wing panel replaced/swapped (resulting in the mis-match as shown) somewhere along the way. Hard to imagine any quality control inspection that would allow that sort of misalignment at the factory. Then again...
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 11:36 AM
Curtis
suseuser's Avatar
Nampa, Idaho
Joined Apr 2010
947 Posts
Duh, easy fix. I made a Rookie mistake. Guess how I fixed it.
Hint: The same issue can happen with the GP Fling.



Gap Fixed!

Curtis
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 11:37 AM
≡LSF8067≡
dwells's Avatar
Bedford, TX
Joined Oct 2007
2,851 Posts
Curtis-

Where did you find the ARF? They've been discontinued for a couple years now. I fly one and have one NIB. Your joiner needs to be massaged a little to get your gap right. Do a little bending (carefully) and sanding and swap side to side to get your best fit. Your throws are fine. the Spirit's rudder is too small so you'll need to give it a little time to respond when you're flying. I have load of pictures of mine that are worth a million words. PM me with info how to get them to you.

Don
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