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Old Jul 04, 2012, 07:37 PM
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ALZRC 3GY V2/Robird G31 Flybarless 3-Axis Gyro

Firstly, thanks to hk-parts for sending me this gyro to review. From what I've read about it so far, I'm excited to see how it goes.

I have to give this gyro a thumbs down at the moment. This gyro needs further development. There is a collective pitch delay that needs to be resolved. I cannot recommend this gyro, at this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ridge_racer View Post
I need Robird to fix the mushy collective, get the tail to stop better on small helis, and give a few more cyclic tuning options...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoollia View Post
Here's a video of my HK550TT FBL with the Robird onboard. Lots of potential here, but the mushy collective is a real detractor. I have to work on the tail a bit as well. I'm moving shortly and the helicopter will be away for a bit, if there are no firmware updates by then I'll probably switch to a ZYX. My 450 Pro with the ZYX performs much better!



** HOT **
New PC App v1.0.0.32 with setup save and restore


http://www.hk-parts.com/alzrc-3gy-3-...stem-v2-0.html

It's very nicely packaged with a double box to keep the lid closed (click to enlarge):
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Description:

What's provided in the box is very complete:
1 x 3GY V2.0 Gyro
1 x SRx1 (S-Bus/Sat lead)
1 x USB cable
1 x Screw driver (for adjusting the gains)
1 x Short extension lead
1 x Triple Rx cable
3 x Single Rx cable
4 x Double sided mounting foam

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The gyro is very small, probably the smallest I've seen. It's smaller than the ZYX and the Hobbymate:
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Gyro weight: 14.0g
With all Rx leads: 22.5g

The cables are very thin. Personally I would like to see heavier cables, more like the ones supplied with the Hobbymate and ZYX.

I find the label on the gyro very hard to read in some lights. They should have used a clear lexan, instead of the opaque one.
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Another nice feature of this gyro is that you can have two satellites. This allows much larger helis to be used with Spektrum gear, without having to use a full Rx. Only one sat cable is supplied with the gyro, so you would need to purchase another SRx1 cable, separately.

I downloaded the PC application from robird's site: http://www.robird.net/G31/
Win XP: http://www.robird.net/G31/xG31.zip
Vista: http://www.robird.net/G31/RG31.application
Win 7: http://www.robird.net/G31/RG31.application

NOTE: Robird's site is down. See the attachments for the PC software and firmware. (thanks to Ah_Clem and Powerdyne)

Once the app was installed, I connected the gyro to the PC's USB. That's one of the nice features with this gyro. It's powered from the USB, so no Rx power is required, and the gyro can be tweaked without powering up the heli (note the servos will not operate). I was presented with a gyro version and a serial on the welcome screen. My gyro had v0.97. The latest version is 0.97a, when I wrote this.

Firmware upgrade:
To upgrade the firmware, I disconnected the gyro from the USB and while holding the "Next" button, I reconnected the gyro. Normally a green light would come on but with the button held you get no light. Make sure you have an internet connection, then in the application click the "Online Update" button, on the main welcome screen. Accept the updated version and it will proceed to flash the gyro with the latest firmware. It was very easy, but I note there does not seem to be any way to go back a version, at this time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Ud506Xxwl5c

Powering the rudder servo:
This gyro has a split servo power bus, to allow the cyclic and tail servo to run at different voltages. Because of this, if you are using a single servo supply and a satellite or S-bus, you have to link the aileron power to the rudder power. This is done by connecting one of the single plug cables provided between the SRx1 boards 3 pin connector and the SRx2/rud input. If you are using two satellites, then you must connect the cable between the SRx1 and SRx2 boards.

Internal Images:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=24

Mounting foam tests:
Thanks Kauaiguy: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...3#post22102262

New metal case and blue label:
Thanks IFHELI: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=130

Much more to come...

Feel free to ask any questions you have regarding this review or any setup issue you might have. Setup is very easy if you have done another flybarless gyro setup before, but it can be a bit daunting the first time, so don't hesitate to ask anything, no matter how simple a question it might be.

Also please post in this thread any of your own flight videos using this gyro or someone else's flight video, and I'll link them in this first post.

If anyone else has a mini review of this gyro, or the same gyro with a different label, also feel free to post it in this thread.

All the best
David


Setup screens:
thanks ridge_racer: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=550 (cyclic expo should have been -20)
thanks boredom.is.me: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=574

Setup videos: (18 of them, skip videos 6 to 9 if you are not using S-Bus or a Sat)
http://www.skyhobbies.com.sg/pagelin...RobirdG31.html

Flight videos:
Compass 7HV: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...05&postcount=4
Devil 450 Pro: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=11
Devil 450 Pro FAST: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=12
Trex 450 Pro, thanks zhnme523: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1041
450 Pro, thanks ridge_racer: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=561
Mini Titan 325, thanks IFHELI: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=68
Beam E4 with DFC, thanks Kauaiguy: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=48
Thunder Tiger X50E: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=561
Kasama Dune 600, thanks SDHeliPilot: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=726
Protos 500, thanks airbasher: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1344

Instruction manuals:
ALZRC: http://www.alzrc.com/en/DownloadView.asp?/49.html
G31: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=991
Older G31 with Tx programming: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1154

FBL Servo arm lengths:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=61

RobirdUSA distributor website
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=982

Thanks to boredom.is.me, IFHELI, ridge_racer for their contribution to this 3GY V2 thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1652630

Highlights from that thread:
IFHELI's fleet: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=38
IFHELI's performance page: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=70
Jombo's link to the Blackwidow thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=61
IFHELI's setup tabs: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=78
Some of the apps screen can't be seen: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...4#post22057954

This gyro is also know as the:
robird G31 (designer and manufacturer)
Black Widow
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 07:38 PM
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Installation, Setup and Test Flight

Out with the old (3GYS) and in with the new (3GY v2) in the ALZRC 450 Pro. Installation went well. I did my usual trick of putting dots on the Rx leads using a Vivid marker (1 = Ail, 2 = Pitch, 3 = Elev, 4 = Rudd), so when I feed all of the cables down to the receiver, I knew which ones went where. Note, make sure the lead with the 3 plugs on the end goes in the left most socket. Do not put a standard lead, with power and ground, into this socket.

The supplied leads are a good length and unlike the old 3GYS, I wasn't stretching the leads to the limit to reach the receiver.

I used Tarot ZYX foam to mount the gyro, as I felt the supplied foam was too thick and too soft. Also Kauaiguy's tests showed more vibration with the supplied foam, and less with a firmer foam. Update, it looks like the vib results attached, with this foam, are good.

I was pleased when I powered up the gyro and everything worked. I had already set up the gyro on the bench, connected to another receiver, but for some strange reason the gyro had lost my Tx reverse settings. I'm a little concerned about this, because I don't know what could have caused them to revert to not reversed. The tail limits were still at minimum, where I'd set them, and the performance setup values were also as I'd set them. Perhaps I turned them off for some reason, it was very late.

I've also strangely had the blue led momentary blinking off a couple of time and a twitch from the servos. I can find nothing mechanical causing this and I can't get it to repeat it by doing anything, i.e. stick stirring or bumping the heli.

The setup using the PC application is excellent. I couldn't ask for any more setup settings and the setup is very logical. There is enough information on each setup screen telling you what to do.

I had a dream setup up with most sliders at there default, and then left the heli running for half an hour, moving the sticks occasionally and moving the heli around. I've attached all of my setup screens.

Some things may still change in the performance tab. I've currently zeroed the expo, as I like to use my Tx expo for all of my helis, to keep it consistent and lowered the swash in/out to 200.

I've filmed a test flight at home. For a change I used the hat cam, so I could fly around a bit more. There were a couple of flights before this one where I adjusted the settings to get the feel I wanted. I must admit that I was disappointed when I first flew it. It was too loose and in banking turns it seemed to fall into it's own down wash.

I changed the swash in/out back to 255 and zeroed the pitch to elevator and cyclic to tail. I also adjusted the gain pots to 1 o'clock. It flew better, so I increased the gains to 2 o'clock. This felt much better.

The tail required a higher gain than I'm used to setting. I had to go to 42 (50 in the PC app) to get the hold I wanted. Other FBL gyros I have are set to around 28-32. It has a slight bounce on a hard stop nose left. I also increased the tail maxrate to 64. This gave me the same tail speed/feel as my other gyros, perhaps a little faster.

I've lowered brake CCW slightly to see if it helps the bounce and increased pitch to tail slightly. I'll post new performance pages if I make any other changes.

Update (13 Aug 2012):
It's becoming evident that the cyclic MaxRate's are not like the tail. They seem to have less of an effect on agility (roll/pitch rate) and more effect on reducing damping, as the setting gets higher.

The other interesting thing is the same dampening also affects collective pitch. I have to admit that I was not fond of how this gyro flew until I increased the cyclics MaxRate to above 22, as I was noticing the slower reaction to collective pitch and cyclic, even when sport flying, making me feel disconnected with the heli.

If you're a beginner then it's probably a good thing, but I recommend as you progress to circuits that you try increasing the cyclic MaxRate's to avoid finding yourself touching the ground with a wind level changes or when doing a negative pitch decent.

If you're already doing sport or 3D flying make sure you increase the cyclic MaxRate setting to 22 or above. I'm using 26 for Aileron and 23 for Elevator. The maximum value is 27.

Tail CCW piro stop bounce is also an issue I'm having with this heli and gyro. I've even tried setting the tail up in rate mode and adjusting the CCWBrake, but it's still there. Reducing CCWBrake just makes it a slow bounce back and increasing it makes it a wag on stop. A pity the tail doesn't have more adjustments. These smaller helis can be finicky.

Update (27 Aug 2012):
I like the new v1.0.0.29 application and the way the gyro flies with the new v0.98a firmware. Robird's work on this gyro is definitely heading in the right direction. I've added the v1.0.0.29 screenshots with my settings for the ALZRC 450 Pro.

Update (25 May 2013):
Finally gave up on this FBL controller, due to issues with collective delay (mushy feel) and tail stop issues. Hopefully robird will ultimately fixes these, but it has taken too long for me to wait any longer, especially when there are many other FBL controllers out there now, that do perform to my liking.

The 3GY/G31 is shelved.



ALZRC 450 Pro with ALZRC 3GY v2.0 - Test flight 1 (5 min 13 sec)
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 07:49 PM
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Even though IFHELI posted these in another thead, I'll post them again here, because it shows robird's efforts to improve this gyro and how well it already works in Gavin's flight video:

Note: For some reason the original videos are now private. It would seem that Gavin Broadbent will no longer be promoting this gyro.

http://youtu.be/Z1OISc9dK3I

http://youtu.be/nkl046t1O40

Here's some other ones I've found of Gavin flying the robird G31:

Robird G31 by KASAMA Gavin on Funfly-1.wmv (5 min 14 sec)


Robird G31 by KASAMA Gavin on Funfly-2.wmv (5 min 37 sec)


Latest, thanks SDHeliPilot:
Breaking Video : Kasama Dune 600 with Robird G31 (4 min 35 sec)


Kasama Dune 600 Gavin Broadbent (5 min 30 sec)
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 08:00 PM
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Flight video of the Compass 7HV using this gyro:

Robird G31 FBL System on COMPASS 7HV (3 min 20 sec)
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 08:51 PM
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I think you will truely enjoy flying with this Gyro. I want another one so bad but I have an extra BeastX and ZYX-S sitting on my bench.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 08:58 PM
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Thanks, IFHELI. That's an excellent endorsement, coming from you. I know you have a large selection of flybarless gyros, and very good flying skills.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 09:14 PM
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Agreed..If I didn't have spare gyros I would get this one.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridge_racer View Post
Agreed..If I didn't have spare gyros I would get this one.
Gosh, that's impressive. I can't wait to get mine in the air. Now if only I could decide which heli to put it on. Change the 3GYS v1 on the 450 Pro or convert the Gaui 425 to FBL...

FYI, I've added a link to your video post in the 3GYS v1 thread. Are there any others you'd like me to add?
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenflying View Post
Gosh, that's impressive. I can't wait to get mine in the air. Now if only I could decide which heli to put it on. Change the 3GYS v1 on the 450 pro or convert the Gaui 425 to FBL...

FYI, I've added a link to your video post in the 3GYS v1 thread. Are there any others you'd like me to add?
Hey thx BF...Here is the link with the setup menus. I have to still do another video with the digital servos now installed...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=550
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=561
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 09:49 PM
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Thanks. I've added the setup screens, as well. I'll look forward to the new video.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 10:42 PM
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Devil 450 Pro, flying in the same location where some of the first v1 videos were recorded:

ALZRC - Devil 450 Pro + 3GY V2.0 3-Axis Gyro (4 min 1 sec)
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 01:33 AM
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Devil 450 Pro FAST:

ALZRC - Devil 450 Pro FAST 3GY V2.0 3-Axis Gyro (3 min 29 sec)
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 09:18 PM
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Interesting to see the 3GY is a little heavier than the ZYX. The 3GY weighs 14.0g without cables and 22.5g with all of the cables to connect to an Rx. The ZYX without the cables weights 10g and 18.4g with all of the cables to connect to an Rx.

I wonder what is the cause of the additional weight. Perhaps the additional hardware for the USB? The USB does have a metal socket.

Also interesting is that the 3GY requires an additional cable to connect to the Rx, as they have reserved one of the plugs on the cable with the 3 plugs.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 10:47 PM
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This may explain why... LOL.... Copy from instructions.....
Fbl system self supports HV(High voltage), the voltage within 4.1V~9V is supported.
Tail servo, swash plate servo and USB has 3 separate power supply circuit. So that HV servo
and normal servo can be used together.
The swash plate servos [ServoLeft, ServoCenter, ServoRight] are powered by [Ail, Ele] such 2
ports, each port can afford 5A current, 2 ports can afford 10A for swash plate servos in total.
The tail servo is powered by Rudd port, which can afford 5A current.
USB will NOT power the servos, so that if you only connected USB, the servos won't move.
For the same reason, if you only powered the Rudd port, the swash plate servos won't move either.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 11:05 PM
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That's a very nice feature and makes good sense, as to why they went with the additional cable.

Seems I should read the manual. I hadn't up until now, because I thought most of it related to the Tx programming.
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