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Old Oct 15, 2002, 12:26 AM
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Orange,CA
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Flaperons or Spoilerons on My Vortex CC?

I am just getting ready to receive my new Cavasos Vortex CC. And I am installing my Aveox 1406/2Y on a Graupner 7x6 folding prop and either a CC Dragon 55 or an Aveox L260 and 8 RC 2400's or 8 3000 nihms. My question is has anyone run two aileron servos front to back. So you can program in either Flaperons or Spoilerons? And is it worth the extra work to install the two servos, most likely I will use HS 85 BB's. Do the Flaperons or Spoilerons help on the aproach to slow the plane up? And which one is prefered Flaps or Spoilers? Has anyone tried either of these options in the Vortex CC? I also have the rudder option for the plane. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks Joe
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Old Oct 15, 2002, 01:12 AM
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San Diego, CA, USA
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Hi there,
I don't know the specifics of the Cavasos Vortex CC, but my friend has the Vortex SP and he is using a single HS-85MG on the ailerons. I would definitely suggest going with two servos, but I'd mount them out at the control surface, as on a sailplane, to minimize linkage length and slop. Spoilerons might be better than flaperons for this plane, as the ailerons are largely out towards the tips.

Good luck... it's a fun plane!
-David
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Old Oct 15, 2002, 10:12 AM
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Brian Nixon's Avatar
Clifton, Va., USA
Joined Sep 2000
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Joe, if you read Jeff Keesaman's E Zone review of the Vortex, he did what you're contemplating concerning dual aileron servos back-to-back on the center of the wing.

Vortex Review

Jeff's conclusion was that dual aileron servos weren't necessary. I run a single HS-85BB for the ailerons on my Vortex SP. If you're used to flying and landing fast planes, the Vortex can be slowed way down for landing without resorting to flaps or spoilers.

Check out Jeff's review. There's a lot of good information there. The Vortex is an excellent design.
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Old Oct 15, 2002, 10:57 AM
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Good point, Brian.

Yes, I agree that the Vortex flies (and lands) just fine without any camber changing ability. Landing isn't appreciably more difficult than any fast S400 plane... but you do need a long, flat approach.

The dual (outboard) aileron servos however would give more control options and reduced likelyhood of flutter, with a minimal weight gain since you could use JR-241's or similar. That's my bias.

Have fun with your great new plane!
-David
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Old Oct 15, 2002, 12:24 PM
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Brian Nixon's Avatar
Clifton, Va., USA
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David, it seems to me that putting the aileron servos, however, small, out on the Vortex wing would add unnecessary drag. The Vortex wing is thin.

Flutter has not been an issue with mine. I built mine stock--without the aluminum tube mod to the ailerons--and I used iron-on covering hinges. Very free-moving, gap-free and solid.
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Old Oct 15, 2002, 03:49 PM
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Votex CC

Thanks Brian, for the information and the link to the review of the Vortex. I agree with you on placing the aileron servos outboard on the wings. Not just for drag but the CC wing is a carbon fiber composite wing and cutting holes in the wing would weaken the structure. And I don't want to do that. So I will run a single HS 85BB on the ailerons. I also had Robert make my plane with a Rudder so I will use HS85's on both the rudder and elevator. Brian can you tell me what power system you are running and what type of cells and how many. Plus your amps and ESC?
I am using my 1406/2Y not sure if I will use my CC Dragon 55 or my Aveox L260 yet?
Thanks Joe

And David thanks for your replys also. I appreciate the help and ideas.
Thanks Again Joe
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Old Oct 15, 2002, 04:05 PM
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Ft. Collins, Colorado
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Spoilerons or flaperons for fast planes

If a person wants to slow down a fast-landing plane for landing is it better to program flaperons or spoilerons? I had spoilerons on an aerobatic powered glider and it really came down in a hurry on final approach. I have been trying to use flaperons on a fast and heavy sport plane with long ailerons, but the flaperons don't seem to help as much. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Old Oct 15, 2002, 04:06 PM
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Clifton, Va., USA
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I'm running the recommended Vortex setup that Sal at Northeast Sailplanes figured out: Kontronik Drive 301 (Fun 500-21 motor and Smile 40-6-12 ESC); seven CP2400s; and Graupner 6.5x6.5 speed prop. Performance is very nice with decently long run times.

Robert's got good information about running the 1406/2Y on his Web site. I would say that either of your speed controls should work fine.

Spend some time early on getting your Vortex dialed in regarding CG and control throws. Your efforts will be rewarded with a really solid-flying plane that is a complete blast to fly and a piece of cake to land.
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Old Oct 15, 2002, 04:30 PM
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Clifton, Va., USA
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Commando, the use of spoilers or flaps (or spoilerons or flaperons) depends on the model because the two produce different results.

Here's an interesting discussion: http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/d.../spoilers.html
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Old Oct 15, 2002, 04:46 PM
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Orange,CA
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Vortex CC

Thanks for the tips Brian. I will make sure I get my plane all trimed out and dialed in. I cant wait to get it. Its gonna be a beautiful plane. I had Robert make it with a white fuselage and white upperside of the wing. With red and blue tip stripes and the same on the horizontal stab. Then dark blue underside of the wings and stab. It should really be pretty. And I am glad I got the rudder option as well. So I will run HS85BB all around and a new Hitec 555 or maybe their new 6 channel RX the Electron? I will post pics when its done?
Thanks Again Joe
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Old Oct 16, 2002, 10:48 PM
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Minnesota
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Vortex

Joe,
I have rudder option on my Twister, total waste of time and effort,
I fly my Vortex with one aileron servo, no problem with flutter, I also use UltraCoat hinges. Landing is not a problem, just plan ahead. I think that putting servos in the wing on a super clean plane like the Vortex would do more harm than good. The Votex is a great flying plane, like all CSD planes.

John
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Old Oct 16, 2002, 11:06 PM
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Vortex CC

Hi John, as I wrote above. I totally agree with you about installing servos in the wing panels of my Vortex. Not only because of drag but that my wing is molded from glass and carbon fiber and cutting it would ruin the strength of the wing. Also the hinges on the plane are live hinges using the top skin of the wing. And I already have had the plane made with a rudder. Robert told me that the rudder is nice to have on the new Vortex CC. If I were to install two aileron servos they would be one behind the other in a straight line on the wing center, But I most likely will run just one HS 85BB and two in the fuse for Rudder and elevator.
Thanks Joe
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Old Oct 17, 2002, 10:28 AM
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Clifton, Va., USA
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Sal at Northeast Sailplanes (maybe he'll chip in here at some point) has said that the CC is a bit lighter than the SP. Still, I've got no complaints at all about my SP. As has been noted many times, Robert Cavazos knows what he's doing.

Slapshot, what's your power setup (motor/batteries/prop)?
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Old Oct 17, 2002, 04:16 PM
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Joe Elston's Avatar
Orange,CA
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Vortex CC

I just received an email from Robert. And he told me that all the hinges on the Vortex CC are all made from Kevlar and are live hinges so I dont need to worry about them. That's a nice option for the plane.
Joe
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Old Oct 18, 2002, 11:44 PM
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Minnesota
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Vortex

Brian,
I am flying my Vortex with a Astro Flight 05/7turn, on 8x1300cp pack. The prop that I like the best is the CAM 5.5x5.5. I set the timer on my radio at 6 min., with throttle managment if I over shoot my landing I have enough for a go-around.
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