Thread Tools
Old Oct 25, 2011, 08:37 AM
antoine is offline
Find More Posts by antoine
Registered User
France, Île-de-France, Savigny-sur-Orge
Joined Nov 2005
62 Posts
Discussion
DYMOND Cougar 1.4m

All,
I jsut came accross this nice cheap bird
http://www.modellhobby.de/Models/Mod...&t=3&c=31&p=31

They define it as a mini hotliner. Has anyone tried it?
I am thinking of taking it to replace/complement my blizzard. I was hesitating between this one and the mini hawk (aka WASP) but this one may be less speedy and more fun.

Antoine
antoine is offline Find More Posts by antoine
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 27, 2012, 05:21 AM
davehuge is offline
Find More Posts by davehuge
Registered User
France, Languedoc, Villar-Saint-Anselme
Joined Apr 2011
34 Posts
Hi, did you ever buy the Cougar?

If so, do you like it, I'm thinking of buying one.

Dave.
davehuge is offline Find More Posts by davehuge
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 29, 2012, 11:16 AM
davehuge is offline
Find More Posts by davehuge
Registered User
France, Languedoc, Villar-Saint-Anselme
Joined Apr 2011
34 Posts
Does anyone know if a 35mm outrunner will fit in the cougar?
davehuge is offline Find More Posts by davehuge
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2012, 07:33 AM
davehuge is offline
Find More Posts by davehuge
Registered User
France, Languedoc, Villar-Saint-Anselme
Joined Apr 2011
34 Posts
Just in case anyone's interested....

I been told maximum motor diameter it will accept is 28mm.
davehuge is offline Find More Posts by davehuge
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31, 2015, 04:46 PM
Ben D Wing is online now
Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Registered User
Ben D Wing's Avatar
The Peak District
Joined Dec 2006
3,626 Posts
Hi Dave, did you ever buy the Cougar?
Have you any building, flying or hardware tips for me as I've just ordered one from Staufenbiel and any help is greatly appreciated.
Ben D Wing is online now Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 01, 2015, 05:32 PM
Ben D Wing is online now
Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Registered User
Ben D Wing's Avatar
The Peak District
Joined Dec 2006
3,626 Posts
There's been very little interest in this thread, but I thought I'd report that I've now flown my Cougar many times in varying conditions and IMHO it's a brilliant mini Hotliner for the money. I can't detect any bad handling habits, and the spoilerons are quite efficient at allowing short field landings, especially if there's a bit of head wind.
For anyone that's interested my hardware is as follows: 2 x SD100 servos for the ailerons, 1 x SD 100 for the elevator, Black Mantis 50A ESC, Zippy 30C 2200mAh 3s LiPo, Hobbyking Turnigy 2836-1000Kv (80g) outrunner, Graupner Cam Folding 11" x 6" folding prop and a Vladimir's Models 32mm Power Hyper Spinner with cranked yolk. The cranked yolk allows the prop blades to fold very close to the fuselage thus reducing drag. See photo.
In this configuration the motor is drawing 31A (334 Watts in) which is over Turnigy's max limit of 25A, but bearing in mind that the prop will anyway unload in the air and that the motor only needs a few seconds burst to climb to height, the motor is not getting chance to overheat. It might not be operating at its maximum efficiency, but the model climbs vertically at a very brisk rate despite that fact!
One other note; I chose not to install a rudder so I was able to mount the elevator servo on a ply frame part way up the fin which has enabled a very direct and slop free link to the elevator (I've never been keen on lengthy pushrods for such a critical control surface). The 3s 2200 battery absolutely fills the forward compartment and the hatch only just fits without fouling (but 'just' is good enough) and the flight times with this size of battery are in excess 20 mins.
Even though I have other more powerful electric gliders, I still get heck of a buzz from thrashing the little Cougar.
Ben D Wing is online now Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2015, 05:14 AM
Ben D Wing is online now
Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Registered User
Ben D Wing's Avatar
The Peak District
Joined Dec 2006
3,626 Posts
One bit of information I omitted from my previous post was the PWR of my set up. As previously stated the power from the motor is 334W so with the AUW being 790.7g (27.9ozs, or 1.74Lbs), the PWR works out at a healthy 192 W/Lb which is why the vertical performance is adequate.
I dare say that fitting a Reisenauer/Plettenberg/Kontronik geared motor assembly would give true F5b style vertical performance, but personally I don't think the low cost Cougar is worth that sort of investment, and possibly the airframe isn't up to the challenge either.
Ben D Wing is online now Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2015, 04:35 AM
Mreyello is offline
Find More Posts by Mreyello
Registered User
Mreyello's Avatar
Deutschland, RP, Niederzissen
Joined Dec 2011
980 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben D Wing View Post
One bit of information I omitted from my previous post was the PWR of my set up. As previously stated the power from the motor is 334W so with the AUW being 790.7g (27.9ozs, or 1.74Lbs), the PWR works out at a healthy 192 W/Lb which is why the vertical performance is adequate.
I dare say that fitting a Reisenauer/Plettenberg/Kontronik geared motor assembly would give true F5b style vertical performance, but personally I don't think the low cost Cougar is worth that sort of investment, and possibly the airframe isn't up to the challenge either.

Hallo Ben,

I would agree to your valuation.

I dont have personal experience with the Cougar but i saw it once in the box at Stauffenbiel.
For me it appeared quite similar to the FVK Bandit which takes more than most people would expect..although its cheap entry level.

The small Reisenauer PP2221 geared drives give more than 2 Kw at only 100g which gives a carbon airframe of similar weight and size to the cougar almost 70m/s vertical....i would expect the Cougar to show some heavy flutter

But there might be options inbetween....

Reisenauer offers entry level geared drives based at the cheap turnigy 450 helidrives;

http://www.reisenauer.de/artikeldetails.php5?aid=1954

This one might give a reliable 1000W input with 4S 1600 and 12x14 . A cheap YEP 80 will be able to handle this.

I would expect almost same weight and a nice 50m/s climbrate.


Actally,due to the high end gearbox the drive is not cheap but consider that the gearbox can be used later for upgraded airframes and drives......
Mreyello is offline Find More Posts by Mreyello
Last edited by Mreyello; Dec 03, 2015 at 09:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2015, 05:44 AM
Ben D Wing is online now
Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Registered User
Ben D Wing's Avatar
The Peak District
Joined Dec 2006
3,626 Posts
Thanks for your recommendation, I'll look at the possibility of the Reisenauer combo and I can confirm that YEP ESCs are very good. I am using 3 of them in various models and my 80A YEP is in the Freudenthaler 'Ion Neo' at the moment which has a Plettenberg HP 220/20/A2 P4 7:1 combo which also gives about 1Kw using a 14.5" x 10" Freudenthaler prop (on 4s).
Ben D Wing is online now Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2015, 06:33 AM
Ben D Wing is online now
Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Registered User
Ben D Wing's Avatar
The Peak District
Joined Dec 2006
3,626 Posts
I've looked at the Reisenauer/Turnigy units and they do seem good value. My main concern is that having used a few Turnigy motors, the bearings don't seem to last very long, and/or the magnets come loose. I wonder if Reisenauer rework the motors before installing them on the gearbox? After all they're only €17 motors and with the Micro 5:1N gearbox costing €80, there's a difference of €40 which might account for modifications? Also, I can't find a 3400Kv version of the motor on Hobbyking's web site, the closest is 3450Kv.
Ben D Wing is online now Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2015, 08:55 AM
Mreyello is offline
Find More Posts by Mreyello
Registered User
Mreyello's Avatar
Deutschland, RP, Niederzissen
Joined Dec 2011
980 Posts
Ben,
I dont think that Andy Reisenauer rework the motors, but to adapt the gearbox to the Motor it requires an adapter flange and the torque pinion which add about 20 Euro.
If i remember right Andy asks for about 10 Euro to assemble and aline the gearbox to the motor and glue the pinion to the shaft.

So the difference is only about 10 Euro which i would watch as handlingfee.

Dont think that Andys motors are diffrent in kv to the listed ones at hobbyking....but i would trust Andys numbers rather than the turnigy numbers

Actually...i had doubts about the bearings also with my scorpions as i had some negative experiences running them as directdrive with higher rpm.

But with the planetary gearbox they take reliably more than 60000 rpm and extreme loads without issues...looks like the large gearbox bearings take the most propforces away form motorbearings.
And consider, these motors are designed as helimotors, the single drop gear creates heavy radial forces which is not the case with planetary gearboxes.

No idea about the magnets in this specific case,we all know that there are massive quality differences in that low price sector.

Andy is known to only offer well proven components with serious numbers...i probably would take that service before trying 3 or 4 different cheapos to find the right one....

An other option may be to look after a used Maxon 4,4;1 gear..sometimes they are offered pretty cheap with old brushed motors......but 1kw would be limit!

Yello
Mreyello is offline Find More Posts by Mreyello
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2015, 09:42 AM
Ben D Wing is online now
Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Registered User
Ben D Wing's Avatar
The Peak District
Joined Dec 2006
3,626 Posts
Many thanks for your input Yello, It's makes a lot of sense what you're saying and it's much appreciated. I might well order the 3400Kv combo as the price is very reasonable and like you said previously, it can be used for other applications too, especially as it has a wide power range.
Ben D Wing is online now Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2015, 11:15 AM
Mreyello is offline
Find More Posts by Mreyello
Registered User
Mreyello's Avatar
Deutschland, RP, Niederzissen
Joined Dec 2011
980 Posts
Ben,
one point to mention.

The geared drives are a nice step towards higher efficiency and performance but when pushed to the limits they also require some knowledge and experience.

If its all about having the best fun with a limited budget i would stick with DD outrunners (pretty sure the cougar would be able to carry also larger ones about 160g which would give about 800 w or even more)

But if some would also watch experimenting with drives and props and challenging the limits as " fun" ,the small geared drives offer a nice and rewarding playground also in entry level airframes.

And its going to be a nice preparation for the high end hotliners and drives.

The main problem is the prop, as there is almost no reasionable one out of the shelf available.

For F5d sized hotliners i had best results with the prop range of arround 12"and slighly oversquared like 14 or 15'' pitch.

The cheap plastic folders in that range dont offer the pitch and are probably not able to handle the power,the F5b carbonprops ask for much higher power and will not give enough pitchspeed at lower powerlevels.

The way to go is to cut the slim RFM props like 14,5x14 or 15x16 down to 12'' ....but as these props are pretty expensive it may be quite costy to find the max performance........
(probably the first lesson to learn as preparation for F5B....

Be aware that the Reisenauer GB has a 6mm shaft,so you also have to change spinner.

For the geared outrunners you probably have to setup your controller a bit different,the high reving 6-pole asks for 24 deg. timing...the micro edition takes startup '' hard '' and brake ''hard'' easy, for a maxon i would both set to ''middle''.


Just as an example see the log below,it shows a slightly larger scorpion outrunner 3700KV at Reisenauer GB and 4S with 12x15.
Airframe is about the same size as the cougar , sure more slippery but also heavier due to large batteries and 4 servo wing ,arround 1kg.

The red line (A1 temp) is airspeed in Km/H.
Mreyello is offline Find More Posts by Mreyello
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2015, 04:48 PM
Ben D Wing is online now
Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Registered User
Ben D Wing's Avatar
The Peak District
Joined Dec 2006
3,626 Posts
Yello, that's very interesting information, thank you again.

I've decided after a lot of number crunching to order this combo from Reisenauer: http://www.reisenauer.de/artikeldetails.php5?aid=2076
As this is the exact unit Andy is using in one of his F5J models it must be good! QUOTE: "Mit 12x6 und 12x8schmal(9g Paar) steigt mein F5J 3,3m 1500g 12-14m/sek. am 3s SLS 2200mAh 45/90C
Andy Reisenauer"
It will certainly make the Cougar (which only weighs 790g) into a proper Hotliner with circa 500 Watts available.
However, one thing I'm not sure about is the bank transfer method that is used on the web site. I've never used this method of payment before because all the online shops I've used have PayPal or credit card payment facilities, so I hope the transaction goes smoothly.
Ben D Wing is online now Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2015, 06:03 AM
Ben D Wing is online now
Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Registered User
Ben D Wing's Avatar
The Peak District
Joined Dec 2006
3,626 Posts
It's been a while, but I've finally taken delivery of a Reisenauer motor/gearbox combo and I settled on the Tenshock Viper 4 pole 5400Kv motor coupled to one of the Micro Edition 5:1 gearboxes driving a Freudenthaler 12" x 8" S Carbon prop. So far I've modified the front bulkhead to adapt to the 3 bolt mounting system, cut a cooling air intake above the motor (vital as these little motors get very warm very quickly), and some cooling air exit slots behind the wing seat. There is also quite a hole at the top of the fin where the elevator pushrod exits so more air can escape through there. I've also upgraded the ESC to a 45A YGE as it can be programmed for slow start and slow brake which I believe is necessary for smaller gearbox installations.
Static running has shown that I'm getting close to what Andy's Calc graph shows (no surprise really) so all that remains is for a weather window to appear so I can try the upgraded Cougar out. With over 500W on tap it's certainly not going to be slow!
Ben D Wing is online now Find More Posts by Ben D Wing
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted 4 x HS-5125MG AND 1 Dymond D-60 SERVO josephcharles Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 0 May 03, 2011 01:09 PM
Discussion Dymond 1.5 servos? Petefoss Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 19 Apr 09, 2011 07:37 PM
Sold HobbyKing Durafly Cessna 182 1.4m esa3 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 5 Mar 15, 2011 04:56 PM
Discussion NP 1.4m drivers... I need help Barbosa2 Electric Warbirds 4 Mar 14, 2011 12:36 PM