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Old Oct 27, 2002, 09:39 PM
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Tres Wright's Avatar
Forney, TX
Joined Mar 2002
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AF 010 on Kokams

Once upon a time, I bought a direct drive Astroflight 010 expecting it to be a hot setup for a parkflyer. Testing was conducted on a few different planes, but mostly on my 24" w.s. Rake by Anything R/C (now defunct). I flight tested 8x300 NiMH (power was good, run time lousy), 7x720 NiMH (power was better, weight really affected flight though) and 2 cell Qualcomms (power was mediocre, run time 10-12 minutes). After testing, I pulled the motor off, put the M100 back on and put the AF 010 aside. For months.

Enter the Kokams. Light weight and higher amp capacity than the QCs, a combo too tasty to pass up. After an evening of work, the AF 010 is back on the Rake with a 3x1020 Kokam pack strapped underneath. The 3x1020 pack weighs a scant 2.3 ounces, a hair more than an 8x300 NiMH pack. But what a difference in power, the Whattmeter shows 6.4 amps, 70 watts at 10.5V (pack is at 12.4V with no load) on the stock prop. All up weight with Kokams aboard is 8.2 ounces. Hmmmm, should be interesting! Hopefully a flight report will follow soon, but with daylight savings time my evening flight envelope disappeared! Maybe I can sneak a flight or 2 in somewhere this week
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Old Oct 27, 2002, 09:48 PM
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Houston Texas
Joined Mar 2001
743 Posts
I glad to see the 010 back in business. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 1020's hold up. I've been flying mine with the 700 ultralifes, and they get a tad warm, I've been wanting to upgrade to the 1020's but waiting to see how they hold up. I've also been happy with the 4.75x4.75 prop on my 010.
Philip
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Old Oct 27, 2002, 09:56 PM
Motors beat engines!
Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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That does sound really good, except that is'nt that better than 6C discharge?

Maybe a little smaller prop?

I am amazed though that your battery is really that light. My 2 cell qualcoms weigh 2 oz.

I wonder if you picked an ips drive that would hold amps down to say 2, if the ips motor would last?

This cold be a method to finally get a true hover out of some slightlybigger ips planes.
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Old Oct 27, 2002, 10:01 PM
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California
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Re: AF 010 on Kokams

Quote:
Originally posted by Tres Wright
Once upon a time, I bought a direct drive Astroflight 010 expecting it to be a hot setup for a parkflyer. Testing was conducted on a few different planes, but mostly on my 24" w.s. Rake by Anything R/C (now defunct). I flight tested 8x300 NiMH (power was good, run time lousy), 7x720 NiMH (power was better, weight really affected flight though) and 2 cell Qualcomms (power was mediocre, run time 10-12 minutes). After testing, I pulled the motor off, put the M100 back on and put the AF 010 aside. For months.

Enter the Kokams. Light weight and higher amp capacity than the QCs, a combo too tasty to pass up. After an evening of work, the AF 010 is back on the Rake with a 3x1020 Kokam pack strapped underneath. The 3x1020 pack weighs a scant 2.3 ounces, a hair more than an 8x300 NiMH pack. But what a difference in power, the Whattmeter shows 6.4 amps, 70 watts at 10.5V (pack is at 12.4V with no load) on the stock prop. All up weight with Kokams aboard is 8.2 ounces. Hmmmm, should be interesting! Hopefully a flight report will follow soon, but with daylight savings time my evening flight envelope disappeared! Maybe I can sneak a flight or 2 in somewhere this week

is it a 010 14 turn? 12 turn? or 16 turn? direct or gear?
may i ask?
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Old Oct 27, 2002, 10:09 PM
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opualuan's Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Sep 2001
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I look forward to your results... tried to move away from dx-a's, tried to fly my cannonshot on 2x qualcomm's. not good.

I now have a 3xkokam 1020 with a very slight weight penalty, and power feels very good and looks great in motocalc. ~7.5oz rtf... I'm looking forward to a test flight saturday...
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Old Oct 27, 2002, 10:10 PM
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Forney, TX
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==That does sound really good, except that is'nt that better than 6C discharge?==

Yes, but that's full throttle static right off the charger. Worst case in other words. The Kokams are rate for up to 5C, but I'm hoping that full throttle won't be required much.

==I am amazed though that your battery is really that light. My 2 cell qualcoms weigh 2 oz. ==

Same with mine, my 2 cell QC packs are dead on 2 ounces. I've been flying 2 cell 1020 Kokam packs on my planes that I was previously flying QCs on. The 2 cell Kokam packs are 1.6 ounces. The weight savings is significant and noticeable!

==I wonder if you picked an ips drive that would hold amps down to say 2, if the ips motor would last? ==

On the 3 cell Kokam pack? No, it would fry it in short order.

==is it a 010 14 turn? 12 turn? or 16 turn?==

16T.

==direct or gear? ==

DD as mentioned in the 1st sentence. I plan on trying out a gearbox one of these days. Frankly I think the performance will be better if run geared on my parkflyers.

==may i ask?==

Of course!
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Old Oct 27, 2002, 10:14 PM
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==I now have a 3xkokam 1020 with a very slight weight penalty, and power feels very good and looks great in motocalc. ~7.5oz rtf... I'm looking forward to a test flight saturday...==

Yes, I'd like to hear how that goes!

I'm not familiar with the "Cannonshot", is that something you designed? You have a thread on it around anywhere?
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Old Oct 27, 2002, 10:46 PM
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San Jose, CA
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http://www.gregcovey.com/micro-fl.htm

greg covey is the pioneer of gws power systems for the cannonshot... now called the kavanshot... the stock power system is terrible

18" span bipe, 1/4" moulded depron, 6-8oz AUW.

needs a small prop and 30-40mph pitch speed to keep it flying... it's an ultimate bipe compared to the tigermoth! it's really tiny, so it needs a small prop to clear the landing gear... ~70 watts to the prop on a less than 1/2lb plane... 140+ watts/lb... sounds nice to me! spun up the motor to 1/2 throttle and the firewall started vibrating... need to beef it up!
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Old Oct 27, 2002, 10:54 PM
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California
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is there any good and cheap charger to charge 3 kokams?
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Old Oct 27, 2002, 11:45 PM
BEC
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Auburn, Washington USA
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tres Wright
I'm not familiar with the "Cannonshot", is that something you designed? You have a thread on it around anywhere?
The Cannonshot is a very small biplane - 16 inch span in its original form - designed by Ken Willard for Cox TeeDee .020 power and a two channel Cannon Tini-Twin "brick" radio. It was published full size in the magazine in the June 1976 issue of Radio Control Modeler. In the article Ken descibes it thus: "a 16 inch span biplane that's instantly responsive, darts around like a hummingbird, spins and snap rolls faster than you can see it, yet takes off and lands like any good sport job that's a taildragger". All up weight with the Tee Dee was 10 ounces. (It's RCM plan #646.)

Much more recently the design was executed in foam by some Czech company under the name Cannonshot and shortly after that it appeared, with several wing options, as the KavanShot. These latter two are sold as parkflyers, though I wonder.

Interestingly, one of the more accomplished builders in my club brought one to the meeting this past week - he'd just built it from the RCM plan and it was powered by the gear he'd heisted from his Gym-E (DX-A, 7 cell 300s, etc.). He reported it was a good flyer.

I built one a number of years ago for Astro 020 ferrite - which wouldn't fly it. I put my cobalt 020 in it, running on 4X450s (2/3A cells the size of 600AEs but long before them) and got 2 1/2 minutes of sheer terror followed by a space-shuttle glide. But at 6-7 ounces it might be a fun little plane.

You know, an AF 010 on 3X1020 Kokams in a Cannonshot might be more in the original spirit of the airplane...... I do NOT need another project!!
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Last edited by BEC; Oct 27, 2002 at 11:50 PM.
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Old Oct 27, 2002, 11:54 PM
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San Jose, CA
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ah-hah-hahahaha! sheer terror, yes, I can see that with the cannonshot. I might pick up those balsa plans, mine is the formoplast one. it's no slowflier, that's for sure, the sucker wants to go pretty fast. the one time I actually had the guts and rudder rolled it, it rolled over in less than half a second... I'm pretty excited about flying on the AF/kokams now I have some more flying skills...
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Old Oct 28, 2002, 02:57 PM
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Forney, TX
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Flight report

Just got back from flying the Rake. The thing launched off the ground like never before, it was up in about a foot and climbed straight up. I throttled back and had to add some trim to counteract the ample thrust. She flew fantastic, power was through the roof. I was at about 3/4 throttle for most of the flight. Ahhh, but not all is well with this setup. Flight duration was a hugely disappointing 5 minutes. I piddled around and flew for another few minutes, but it was uninspiring low power stuff. Total flight time was 8-1/2 minutes. I'm going to try a 4.75x4.75 prop (the prop I'm flying now is the 5.5x4 AF prop), but I really think a gearbox is in order. I could live with 10+ minutes of solid flight time, but 5 minutes isn't worth the lengthy recharge time.

This setup is a great balance of power and weight though, at 8.2 ounces glide rate is fantastic. The landing was a nice floater at very low throttle.
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Old Oct 28, 2002, 03:00 PM
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Forney, TX
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Thanks for the info on the Cannonshot, cool little plane! Someone had a really tiny bipe at DEAF, I think it was even smaller than that. It had ailerons and really flew fantastic. It was a little rocket as well!
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Old Oct 28, 2002, 03:27 PM
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Montgomery, Al.
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Tres,
I've been wandering about the AF 010 w/GB myself, but on the slow stick. I will be watching to see what setup, (GB ratio and prop), you come up with. I donít have the equip. knowledge or time to do the testing you guys do. EZONE is AWSOME!!!!!!!!!
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Old Oct 28, 2002, 06:21 PM
MKH
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Ohio
Joined Mar 2000
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I'll be testing a geared 010 on 3 lionpolys pretty soon, I hope?! The 14 turn with gearing of 4.5:1, give or take, should swing a 10x4.7 well above my current 280 setup, at the same amps. If the GWS gearbox proves to be difficult, I'll go with the Cosmotech, but it WILL be done!
Marcus
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