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Old Nov 21, 2012, 09:49 AM
It wasn't me...
DanSavage's Avatar
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Joined Nov 2000
4,559 Posts
Hi Bob,

Sorry I missed this post.

Yes, Daren brought this tech error to my attention when he was building his alpha laser kit. I had made the correction to the laser files and sent those updates to the cutter.

I'll follow up with him the next time I get ready to cut kits to make sure he's using the correct, most up-to-date files.

Thanks again and I'm glad to see you caught this.

Dan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hunt View Post
Dan:

Another item to add to the "corrections" list. The aft, inner panel wing jig part, WJ-4, is too long. WJ-1, WJ-2 and WJ-3 will all correctly align over the plans (with WJ-1 over W1 and WJ-2 over W5/W6). When trying to fit WJ-4 between 1 and 2, it is obviously too long and must be notched a little closer to the wing root to get everything to line up correctly. If this is not done, then the sheeting below W1 and W5 will not be properly supported during the upper sheeting process.

It's also necessary to "angle sand" the notches so the WJ3/4 parts can sweep aft, but that's sort of a given with 1/8" thick cut parts. I use a popsicle stick with 150 grit self stick paper on both sides.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 09:52 AM
It wasn't me...
DanSavage's Avatar
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Joined Nov 2000
4,559 Posts
It looks like you're making great progress. The wing panels look good.

Dan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hunt View Post
I'm just having a ball with this kit. It's starting to look like something, so I'm spending more and more time on it as the weather here progressively worsens.

I decided to not glue the wing panels together before cutting off the ailerons and doing all the aileron related assembly. I carefully marked the inboard and outboard lines, and cut everything with a band saw. Much easier, faster and more accurate than doing it with a razor saw and a knife. (I never did very well at that.)

Here they are with the LEs and TEs shaped, and the aileron spars and LEs installed and shaped.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 01:57 PM
Mustang Fever
Joined Jan 2005
366 Posts
Marked and cut the hinge slots today, with the trusty Great Planes slot cutter. That's another reason I've delayed gluing the panels together- impossible to use the cutter that close to the outer panel where the hinge needs to go.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 04:47 PM
Mustang Fever
Joined Jan 2005
366 Posts
Here we are with the wing panels in the fixtures all ready to be joined, and my epoxy has gone sour. Here they'll sit until a new set of 30 minute z poxy arrives via UPS. (I live 50 miles from the nearest hobby shop.)

I put my digital heli pitch gauge on the glass top and zeroed it, then used it to check the angles of the panels. Both inner panels read exactly zero, and the outers exactly 14 degrees. A big testament to the system you designed, Dan.

The original Phantom was 12.5 degrees. Do I need to drop them down a little or did you crank in a little extra for stability?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:49 PM
It wasn't me...
DanSavage's Avatar
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Joined Nov 2000
4,559 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hunt View Post
Here we are with the wing panels in the fixtures all ready to be joined, and my epoxy has gone sour. Here they'll sit until a new set of 30 minute z poxy arrives via UPS. (I live 50 miles from the nearest hobby shop.)

I put my digital heli pitch gauge on the glass top and zeroed it, then used it to check the angles of the panels. Both inner panels read exactly zero, and the outers exactly 14 degrees. A big testament to the system you designed, Dan.

The original Phantom was 12.5 degrees. Do I need to drop them down a little or did you crank in a little extra for stability?
Sorry to hear about your spoilt Epoxy, Bob.

Thanks for the kind words. I don't recall increasing the outer wing panel dihedral angle. If you want to be 100% scale, you could decrease them, but I don't think it will adversely affect the handling if you leave them where they are.

Dan
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 04:58 PM
Mustang Fever
Joined Jan 2005
366 Posts
Thanks, Dan. I'll take another look at the "verticallity" of the inboard ribs (on the outboard panels) when the epoxy gets here. It could be they are not perfectly vertical.

I spent most of the afternoon on getting the fan installation correct. This is no reflection on the kit, just on my lack of experience- this is my first DF model. After messing about for several hours, I finally gave up and glued the entire EDF "cage" together over the plans. Then I was able to easily trial fit the unit and mark the locations for the blind nut holes. Another testament to Dan's design and the quality of the laser cutting: it came out perfectly square and the fan fits great.

I don't know if you can tell from the pix, but I cut a new B7-1 part so that my fan unit would sit flush against the back of it. My fan's called a 90mm, but that dimension exists only on the outside of the duct at the very front. When I tried it on the 90mm mount parts, it just passes right through. It fit better on the 3.5" parts, but needed a new B7-1 in front with a smaller ID.

I hope all of this makes some kind of sense.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 10:20 AM
Mustang Fever
Joined Jan 2005
366 Posts
I did the same thing with the nose gear- put B2 and B3 together with the gear mount so I could completely finish the installation from the "outside", so to speak.

This all seems to have worked well. The fuse is straight and true, and the wings fit properly. Working now on the I2 inner duct pieces.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 06:52 AM
Mustang Fever
Joined Jan 2005
366 Posts
This kit is a real educational experience- my first DF, gluing stuff to glass, and now the Bristol paper inlet ducting. That was yesterday's task.

Before cutting the aft ducts out of the Bristol paper, I made a couple out of printer paper. Good thing, because of the RC Lander fan issues, the aft ducts needed to be skinnier and longer at the rear. I got a lot of practice with the printer paper ones, and the actual duct work was uneventful.

Next, I'm going to build those parts of the tail section that will allow the glass exhaust nozzle to be mounted, so I can go ahead and do the plastic funnel that attaches to it and the fan unit while the fuse is unsheeted and open.

After that I'll do the side sheeting so I can construct the wing mounts, as I can't wait to see what this bird looks like sitting on it's landing gear.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 07:32 AM
Gorilla Glue Expert
PikeStaff's Avatar
United States, PA, Doylestown
Joined Sep 2010
2,701 Posts
With you on the, "can't wait" part! Looking so good tho, almost seems wrong to cover it all up.

Your work looks great. Living vicariously thru your build here.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 12:01 PM
killickb
killickb's Avatar
The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
1,275 Posts
Good progress Bob, I can remember when mine was at that stage, won't be long before it looks like an F-4 and you can make jet noises around the shop ! Do make sure you build in all the lightness you can, mine came out on the heavy side which is great for stability and penetration but nerve-racking on finals. My E-Flight tretracts are still working fine though even off of grass!
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 03:35 PM
DELTAS RULE
corsair nut's Avatar
tehachapi, CA
Joined Jan 2006
21,765 Posts
thats looking great bob! makes me want to build something from balsa!
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 04:19 PM
Mustang Fever
Joined Jan 2005
366 Posts
Thanks, guys.

The big moment has arrived.

Dan: I ended up setting the tip panel dihedral at 12.5 degrees, like the big ones.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 04:36 PM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
1,275 Posts
Bob did you put plenty of adhesive on your inlet "sandwich" to ensure it is rigid when dry? My first power up I sucked one of them in so had to go back and add another layer. I used aliphatic for gluing the layers. Suggest you check this before buttoning up the fuse!
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 05:01 PM
It wasn't me...
DanSavage's Avatar
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Joined Nov 2000
4,559 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hunt View Post
Thanks, guys.

The big moment has arrived.

Dan: I ended up setting the tip panel dihedral at 12.5 degrees, like the big ones.
It's looking very, F-4-esque, Bob.

I re-read my earlier post and I can see I could have been clearer. I don't recall what the plans call out for WRT to the outer panel dihedral or how I measured mine. I'm glad to see you worked yours out to your satisfaction.

Keep up the good work!

Dan
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 09:41 PM
Mustang Fever
Joined Jan 2005
366 Posts
Dan: I think the angle on the inner ribs was set to whatever the desired dihedral was by the little jig pieces. At 12.5 degrees, mine were still not quite vertical. When I glued the panels on, I used a mixture of epoxy and milled fiberglass to fill any gaps. That stuff is so strong, and so strengthens whatever it's used on, that I'm debating with myself over whether to glass the joints or not.

Killick: It took several hours, but the Titebond dried and the inlet ducting (with doublers and triplers) is quite rigid. The aft section, where there's no tripler, has a little give in it. I have quite a bit of the Bristol paper left over, so I think I'll triple that area just to be safe.
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